I made $100M+ betting on NBA games, now I own a pro soccer team

Haralabos Voulgaris

"This was the **biggest, greatest** edge in the history of gambling edges. *I can promise you.* But I've never uttered this in public to anyone ever before. You wanna nuke it? Let's nuke it."

Shaan Puri

Alright, so we gotta tell your story because your story is—you basically did what me and probably 50% of other young guys wanted to do in their life. It's like, "What if I could take a few thousand dollars, find an edge, beat the house in Las Vegas, and turn a few thousand dollars into millions of dollars—tens of millions of dollars—and ultimately, I believe, into hundreds of millions of dollars?" Not by counting cards in blackjack at first, but by, you know, sports betting. Then you get recruited by **Mark Cuban** to go work for an **NBA** team at one point. You now own your own soccer club. So you've had this really cool life and career.

Sam Parr

you're like a comic book character

Shaan Puri

Yeah — your man cave came to life. It worked, so that's dope. But, of course, no story is perfect. There are ups and downs; it's not all planned out this way. This podcast is mostly a business podcast: somebody comes on and tells us about their company, their investments, or whatever. What we like most is people who *play their own game*. What I like about you is you play your own game — you're a pretty independent thinker. I want to walk through the story. I'll call **Chapter One** "Stumbling into gambling and figuring out how to..." [trails off]

Haralabos Voulgaris

have that edge can you tell

Shaan Puri

A little bit about that story. I think I know a bit of it, but **Sam**, you don't know any of that story, right? How he first got started and made a name for himself doing this?

Haralabos Voulgaris

No. Yeah, I mean, I grew up around gambling. My dad was— I use the term "unsuccessful gambler"; some people might refer to it as "degenerate." He was someone who gambled a lot, unsuccessfully, and that caused a lot of problems in our family. Not to sugarcoat it—it was bad. I grew up around the horse racetrack, and I grew up watching NFL football on Sundays, basically trying to help my dad make picks.

Sam Parr

what city

Haralabos Voulgaris

I grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. I was at the Assiniboia Downs racetrack every Saturday, Sunday, and Wednesday for most of my teenage years — I'd say from about **12 to 18**. So yeah, I was just kind of around it. I always thought it was rather interesting. One thing I didn't realize when I was younger was how near-impossible it is to beat the horses because of the takeout. The *vig* is so high — about **30–36%**. They've got to pay for everything: the stables, the horse approvals, all of it. I thought, "Well, these people don't know what they're doing." They had no process; they didn't know what was happening. They were very emotional. I grew up in a **Greek** family, so you would hear these people — they just were not in control of their emotions in any way. They would be upset when they won; they would be upset when they lost. They would be arguing with each other. I'm very low-key, so it was very different for me.

Shaan Puri

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Haralabos Voulgaris

So that's how I got started. Then, at some point after I graduated from high school, I went to Las Vegas with my dad—he was there. I stayed for about a month or so, or whatever.

Sam Parr

he was there gambling like like everything

Haralabos Voulgaris

Yeah, exactly. My dad was—if it was daylight hours and he had money in his pocket, he was gambling. "What was his occupation?" He was a **first-generation** immigrant. He moved to Canada when he was about 20 years old but didn't speak a lick of English. He became a dishwasher at Kentucky Fried Chicken and just worked his ass off. He moved his way up from dishwasher to restaurant work and finally got involved in real estate development. He had strip malls all over Winnipeg. You should have him on the show—he's got a great story.

Sam Parr

so he was an entrepreneur

Haralabos Voulgaris

big time entrepreneur yes

Shaan Puri

Wow. And when you go to *Vegas*, you're not 21, right? You just graduated from high school. So what do you do with your dad? You're in a casino — you can't really do much.

Haralabos Voulgaris

much I park myself in the sportsbook and hope that nobody tells me because they

Shaan Puri

don't id you in the sportsbook yeah you just

Sam Parr

sit there they're

Haralabos Voulgaris

So I was supposed to, but they don't — you're just in the sportsbook, so you're just sitting there. I would just watch basketball. It was the first time I really ever watched **NBA** basketball to that extent. Previously I watched a lot of hockey and Canadian football. My dad would give me a little bit of money — not a lot — and I would watch basketball. I'd sit there from 4:00 PM Pacific to 10:00 PM, 11:00 PM Pacific and just watch the games on these giant TVs. I started to really enjoy the routine of watching the West Coast games, so I began to pay more attention to the West Coast teams. That was like Chris Webber's rookie year when he played for Golden State, and they had a run — *TMC*, I think it was before that.

Shaan Puri

and so yeah that's all I did were you losing money at first what was going on when did you start making money

Haralabos Voulgaris

No, that was a lot. I didn't really win — I wasn't losing a lot, though. I had an okay opinion by the end. But yeah, I was losing, of course; I was probably flipping coins and playing big, so it was probably about 50/50 roughly. But I needed to win... you know. I needed to win "11 to 10" — "eleven out of every ten" [unclear phrasing in original]. So it wasn't bad; it wasn't like I was getting my ass handed to me or anything. Then I realized I really like this and I *want* to get good at it. I thought about what that entails: what do I have to do to get good? So I went to work. I started taping games and started reading a lot of newspaper articles on the internet.

Sam Parr

When you're—when you're saying you're learning to get good at it, how much of it is the **human side**? Are you learning the human emotions of the players, leadership, and things like that—the **story versus the statistics**?

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah back then there was not a lot of good statistics there was just something called the box score which is just not very it's not very illustrative of the game so it was almost that and a little bit of database work in terms of like just getting aggregates from teams in certain situations I also tried to like really also understand the market more I think in other words the opening lines with os I though what I got to be really good when I was in vegas around that time was seeing the sharps that would line up at the stardust casino in the morning they had something called the lottery so the lines would be posted in the morning and then every sharp would be able to get make a full limit bet down in the morning and they'd have to do a lottery to see who could go first and then they'd make a bet and then the book would decide to adjust so I started just like looking to see like okay who are the actual sharps who are the guys who seem like they're moving money for other people what are they betting

Shaan Puri

so you're treating it like a job you must have been getting there early then

Haralabos Voulgaris

what time is that yeah I mean it's not a lot of work it's not manual labor I'm not laying bricks or riding off the back of a brontosaurus like fred funstone breaking rocks

Shaan Puri

but that

Haralabos Voulgaris

would work

Shaan Puri

and so did you go ask them to learn from them or you're just watching them from afar and figuring it out yourself

Haralabos Voulgaris

I just wanted to see like okay this guy made a bet the line didn't move that's interesting then you see him back like the next day and the next day and then and then you see the by the way it wouldn't just be one you'd see like now at 04:00 post time the lines would move even more so it's like okay this line moved a lot there wasn't an injury that guy betted early so it was just like little things I think if I have one skill in life aside from being not really caring what other people who I don't know think about me I think and just being confident in that I think it's like maybe like a little bit of pattern recognition I think I'm decent at that I think I I can see patterns and I'm also able to identify like oh was that an actual pattern or was I just fooling myself with randomness there

Sam Parr

"Did you have a role model? Like, was there— you know, as an *18- or 19-year-old*—were you thinking to yourself, 'There are other people who have gotten **super rich** doing this; I think I can do it'? Or were you like, 'There are some people who make an **okay living** doing this; I think I can do it'? Or were you like, 'I don't think about next year—just this. This is what I'm enjoying today'?"

Haralabos Voulgaris

When you're 19, you don't really think like that. I don't — in terms of, like, "oh, I wanna make a..." I've always been someone who's been very confident that I was going to be successful. I would recite things in my head when I was a kid: "I'm gonna be a millionaire. I'm gonna be a millionaire." I would just do that. So, at that age I think I was just kind of... I wasn't sure how I was gonna make it. I just knew I was gonna make it. I kinda went through life with this *irrational confidence*, I think.

Sam Parr

was there a definition of making it was it like $10,000,000 by the time I'm 25

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah I think when I was tree planting I I would had like I was listening to like tony robbins' books and reading them like listening to them at night and then reading them in the morning and I think yeah I had like 10 things that I wanted and I and yeah I think it was 10,000,000 before the age of 30 I think back then that was a lot of money now you can just spin up a meme coin and you're taken by that by noon but back then it was blocked

Shaan Puri

what was the first profitable pattern you figured out the one that really

Haralabos Voulgaris

really kinda worked canadian football was first profitable my first bit of money was canadian football not like soccer but actual football three down football there's a lot of things going on then they expanded into america at that time and so you had some interest for whatever reason in las vegas to book canadian football league games or like offshore markets and so and the canadian teams had to abide by different rules than the american teams so that was part of it you had to have a certain amount of canadians on your roster that were starting american teams didn't didn't have that the canadian stadiums were all compliant to canadian football league rules american stadiums did not so some of the end zones like the canadian rules are like the end zones are 20 yards deep but in some stadiums in america they didn't have that luxury so they were squared off at the back and so those games are lower scoring that was a big part of it and I just got to be really good at knowing a lot about canadian football and which teams were sharp were doing innovative things so canadian football

Shaan Puri

So, can you give us a sense of the kind of journey? So you start with roughly what bankroll, and then how long did it take you to get to your *first million*? And then at one [unclear]... I think you were betting like a million dollars a day, or maybe even more than that. Yeah, I was betting.

Haralabos Voulgaris

a lot I mean I think like so it's a long story so I think the most it got to be I was a skycap at the winnipeg international airport that's when things really took off for me and I don't think anyone's ever said that before in their life that they wanted to

Sam Parr

talk to people you were what

Shaan Puri

what is a skycap

Haralabos Voulgaris

the dudes are I was like the first white skycap hired at the winnipegers the dudes who sit curbside and carry people's luggage in and check their luggage in in the us they check the luggage in but in canada that's not allowed because transport can so you would just carry people's luggage in so I would like carry

Sam Parr

people's luggage

Haralabos Voulgaris

we don't like being called bag boys bag boys yeah basically yeah so you're just carrying people's luggage or in canada a big thing in the winter was snowbirds who are fleeing winnipeg to go move to florida for the winter and they're in wheelchairs and you're just like wheeling them through customs and immigration and making sure they're bags

Shaan Puri

and you're making what per hour roughly

Haralabos Voulgaris

I was making a lot so I started out as a skycap in the summertime I was printing money and I was making I started out as a skycap I realized that the saturday sunday ships were very profitable because we had american fishing travel that were to put coming on these boats and they'd have to take a charter plane to go fishing somewhere in northern canada and those days you're making 4 or $500 in an eight hour shift easy

Sam Parr

wow

Haralabos Voulgaris

And so I basically went to the boss of the company and said, "Hey, I really want to work the Saturday and Sunday shifts. What do I gotta do to make it happen?" He said, "No — we gotta spread those around. It's not fair." The other dudes weren't making any money; they would make like $80. So I just started paying them for their Saturdays. I started paying them like $80 to work Saturday and Sunday. Then the owner got wind of that and he got upset. He started working the Saturdays and Sundays and couldn't figure out why he wasn't making the money that I was. But I was—what were you doing?

Sam Parr

you were like complimenting these folks and just getting tipped

Haralabos Voulgaris

I was just, you know, doing things like getting them limos to go to the strip clubs for the four hours that they're there, getting them Cuban cigars — because Cuban cigars are illegal when they land — and making sure they had Cuban cigars and charging them three times the value for that. It feels like little things like that.

Sam Parr

yeah just being intense I

Haralabos Voulgaris

was being intense I was like a concierge of the winnipeg international airport but anyways I ended up taking over the company from him I just undercut his contracts and so there was actually at the winnipeg international airport I was making so much money

Sam Parr

**That's an easy leap, right?** Bag boy to taking... It's like you just walk into his office and you're like, "Hey, guy, move — they're working for me now."

Haralabos Voulgaris

I was like I went to him and I was like yo like I've already got north it was northwest airlines now delta I guess but it was northwest I was like hey I've already got them to agree to the contract everyone wants to work for me you can just I can give you some money and you can just move on or I can just undercut you the money I'm gonna give you I'm gonna say you know it's a win win and he was like nope don't wanna do that whatever so I ended up doing that I ended up undercutting him

Sam Parr

so how old are you

Haralabos Voulgaris

I was 22 20 three that's amazing that was actually a crazy story so I was making so much money at the winnipeg international airport of skycap and gambling that mostly skycap that at the time eric there was actually a bunch of there was some cocaine that was found in air canada I had a pass to go everywhere as a skycap and there was a situation where some drugs were found like big amount of drugs from like and one of the us customs and immigration employees who I became friends with said like hey you gotta they think you're like we know what you're doing here as a skycap and I know you but you're like suspect number one like just so you know like they don't understand why you have a brand new cadillac not brand new but like you're driving a cadillac like some gangster and you're walking around with wads of cash like they had lots of cash from the saw tips and so I was like what and he's like yeah like it's they were laughing they thought it was funny they realized of course it had nothing to do with it but you can Google it so it's it actually happened there was like some kind of thing that happened in winnipeg at the time where they found something

Sam Parr

So, what was your income at the ages of 22, 23, and 24 while doing all this? </FormattedResponse>

Haralabos Voulgaris

like 50 or 60,000 a summer easily I was you know I was I was living with my my mom and my older brother we were like paying my parents' rent for a while after my dad kinda had like a downslope on the you know during the 1987 or whatever the interest rates went up strip mall business wasn't so good anymore especially when you're borrowing money at at at floating rates to build these strip malls so yeah that was about what I I had was making at the time

Sam Parr

so you're

Shaan Puri

you've been rich since

Sam Parr

you were 23 years old

Haralabos Voulgaris

Oh, I don't think so, because I'd been spending — you know, I wasn't exactly saving. Money was going. I was going out for dinner every night. I was spending the money. I was taking trips to Vegas. I was doing stuff. But yeah, I was... I had to pay for my school also. I had to pay for my university, so I was paying for my university. I was supporting my parents. **I wasn't rich; I just worked hard.** Also, while I was working as a skycap [airport baggage handler], I also worked at Rogers Video. I was working forty hours a week at Rogers Video in the summer, skycap in the morning and Rogers Video, which is like a Canadian Blockbuster. So I had a work ethic.

Shaan Puri

I guess you're more of a *hustler* than I thought. I had gotten the public perception that you're kind of just a sharp — it's all mental. You sit in your room, you have your models, then you make bets and the money comes in. I didn't know, at least, some of these stories about you kind of hustling as the skycap [airport porter] and figuring out how to run your own operation down there. That's pretty cool. When did — I don't know, Sam, if you've heard these stories — but I guess a couple of your famous betting stories are: you went all in at one point on the Lakers to win the championship at about 6-to-1 odds.

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah six and a half to one roughly

Sam Parr

what how much is all in and what and what age and the timeline is it

Shaan Puri

it was

Haralabos Voulgaris

like 87,000 canadian give or take

Sam Parr

and and that was all your money

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah but you could go buy I you know I looked at it like okay it was all my money now it's like october fishing you know fishing season just ended at winnipeg international airport I've already paid for my tuition at the university of manitoba to get my useless philosophy degree I'm living in my brother's basement worst case I lose this bet and I just go back to sky capping and just make half of that or two thirds of that back again so but yeah I made a bet it wasn't a sharp bet by any stretch looking back it wasn't sharp but it felt sharp to me at the time your risk model hasn't developed your amygdala or whatever hasn't fully developed you're that age to really understand if you're making good decisions so

Sam Parr

did he win

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah he won yeah

Shaan Puri

sam have you heard the bill burr quote about risk

Sam Parr

no what's he say

Shaan Puri

The comedian has this great line about *risk*. Being a comedian is risky on many levels. You're probably not going to become a famous, millionaire touring comedian, and just stepping onstage is a risk—you'll get humiliated most of the time when you're not that funny. Someone asked him how it felt to take that leap of faith. He replied that he didn't see it as a risk and told a story: > "I didn't see it as a risk. The best thing that ever happened to me—I'm kind of dumb, but the one smart thing I realized early on—was that the real **risk** was waking up in a king-size bed when I'm 40 years old, turning over to a woman that I don't love anymore, being married because I thought it was the right thing to do, and dreading the job I have to go to in six hours. > That became the risk in my head." He contrasted that with chasing your dream: > "Chasing your dream—there's no risk at all. You're doing the thing you want to do. Versus living a life you don't want to live just to play it safe—that seemed like a bigger risk."

Haralabos Voulgaris

I definitely relate to that. I mean, I don't know if any of you guys had the pleasure of spending a winter in **Winnipeg**, but it's *not pleasant*.</FormattedResponse>

Sam Parr

one of the

Shaan Puri

Other stories—then that's pretty sweet. He, I guess, is at one. Like, in Vegas you can bet on the full game, which is what most people do. I'm a casual: I go in and just bet the *over/under*, maybe the final score. What he realized was that you could also bet on the **first half only**, which was not as common. But the way Vegas does it is they take the full-score prediction—which they're pretty accurate at—and for the halftime score they just cut it in half (divide by two).

Haralabos Voulgaris

roughly yeah make the first half a little bit higher scoring in general I could tell you guys look I haven't told this I tell this story in a way that makes it so the edge still lives on for the people that are still betting but I don't know you guys caught me on okay this is this will maybe go viral I don't know probably fuck up a lot of people's money but I think I think that people most people have figured it out by now but I've never uttered this in public to anyone ever before true story okay the away team gets to choose which basket it wants to shoot on oriented so you have teams who play back then I would say 30 teams in the nba twenty eight of them 27 of them when they're on the road would always want their offense shooting in front of their own bench and they would want their defense shooting in front of their bench in the second half therefore the first halves are higher scoring the second halves are lower scoring you've got the bench in front of you you can park out instructions this and that three coaches god bless them I wouldn't be here without them decided that they wanted to flip it and they wanted to have the defense in front of them in the first half and the second half they wanted to randomize the game and make the second half higher scoring so you would literally like eddie jordan it was jerry sloan was the king of this he was the first original guy from utah and so this was the biggest greatest edge in the history of gambling edges I can promise you you would have situations where the total would be higher in the first half lower in the second half and the team would literally score on average 106 points in the first half and 87 or something like this or 90 whatever it was back then in the second half you also have the advantage of fouling at the end of games which will also make the score in the second half higher scoring and overtime which is a nice little bonus too working in your favor so the second half over was like you would have teams playing doing this 41 times a year and they would go nine overs in the first half 30 whatever 32 30 three with some pushes in the second half and you could just print money making this bet and that's what I did and I figured that out very very quickly I actually I didn't figure it out that quickly to be honest I'm not as bright as I think I am because it took me a long time to figure out what the fuck was happening I just knew these teams had situations where on the road their games were much lower scoring in the first half than they were when they played at home and I thought well they're they're trying to slow the game down it's this and that but really it's just you're more efficient when your offense is in front of your bench because the other team's defense can't get set and you can mark out and start

Sam Parr

like a clear pattern right like you'd only need a season of games to understand that pattern

Haralabos Voulgaris

but you don't know that teams are doing this not like they say hey the mavericks are shooting in front of their like they're the one team nobody's paying attention to this nobody knows that a team that that back then it was a perfect situation because it was three to four teams a year they were all shit teams it was in my heyday it was the utah jazz it was a shit team the washington wizards with eddie jordan shit team byron Scott new jersey nets shit team and then you had a few teams like the minnesota timberwolves did it some games not other games which is the dream scenario nowadays that's probably screwing these gamblers because when that happens you've so so that was it that was yeah that's why I made all my a lot of my money and you could I I I if I had a bankroll of this is not responsible please don't follow this about but if I had a bankroll of like 250 k because I was betting on credit you settle at the end of the week I'd have a situation where if I somehow lost all my bets I'd be like 2 or $3,000,000 in debt but it didn't matter because I knew my edge was so big that I was betting and I somehow partnered up with some big book big big bookmaker / alleged mafia guy in montreal which is another story who was able to get me down for a lot of money and he just basically I gave him the bets I told him what I wanted to bet he would go bet them for me he'd collect he'd give me the money I'd win and that was that so that's the edge that's the whole edge in a nutshell

Sam Parr

this is insane I have so many questions but it it you know I'm a new friend

Haralabos Voulgaris

I don't want to always I've had like friends who I've told this to are like oh can you please share that on my podcast with me I'm like I feel bad for the people who are still grinding out a living doing this but you know what it's a new day terrorists are here this is my terror to the gambling community

Sam Parr

"I'm a new fan of yours. Sean was like, 'We gotta talk to this guy,' so I went and read everything I could in the past week. Can you give me, as a noob, some type of scale as to your winnings? Are we talking hundreds of millions of dollars in winnings, or whatever you're comfortable with?"

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah no I mean look I I made between 10 to $12,000,000 a year gambling for ten to fifteen years minimum so so we're talking $9.09

Sam Parr

figures in in the winnings

Haralabos Voulgaris

I spent a lot. Like, I didn't just always—that was my net win, you know. Well, I'm not talking about local wins and losses. I mean, I lived a pretty good life: I took care of my parents, I did other things. But yeah, I profited a lot gambling on basketball for sure. Like, a bad year for me in the **NBA**, I think it was something like $6 or $7 million. The average was probably $8 million. In the early heydays I made more money than I—yeah, but I also made some mistakes afterwards. But yeah, I totally... but what? </FormattedResponse>

Sam Parr

Are you, in your personal life, living the life of a 28-year-old rich guy? I mean, are you spending **seven figures** a year personally? "No, no, no, no, no. Not that crazy."

Haralabos Voulgaris

I just I tried like other business things I like you know I helped out some family I bought like a property in in montreal I bought you know some stuff for my I I yeah I mean

Sam Parr

so you're not you're not you you kind of overplay you're you're it doesn't seem like you're being irresponsible

Haralabos Voulgaris

no I was just like I just think life is short and what's the. Of money if you can spend it so but I don't spend it I spend it on experience I spend on experiences like I'm not a flashy guy I don't drive a fancy car I don't wear jewelry I've never had a watch I've never had any expensive you know I'm pretty basic in my clothing

Shaan Puri

Just like a lot of NBA players end up going broke, or NFL players end up going broke later in their careers. One of the crazy things was that I grew up idolizing Phil Ivey and a lot of poker players. Once I got into the world of business and investing, I realized, "this is kind of what *real wealth* looks like." I also realized that a lot of the guys who were really great poker players — really great gamblers, who you thought were incredibly successful — I don't think they were as successful.

Sam Parr

like businessmen

Shaan Puri

As I thought, I don't think they made as much at their peak. I think they've lost a lot along the way, or they had huge downswings somewhere along the way. As far as—are you the most—did you do the best? Are you the most successful sports bettor that you know, or were there people better than you who made more than you? **Billy Walters** is very...

Haralabos Voulgaris

I mean, **Billy Walters** had the biggest—my edge was that I had to scrap for my edge because Billy Walters had the first computer program. They were using giant Westinghouse machines to feed the information on those giant cards for computer programming. They had a computer program when the Vegas oddsmakers would just sit around a table and say, "I think the line should be seven and a half."

Sam Parr

what do you think jack

Haralabos Voulgaris

And I think it should be around **8.5**. Then Billy Walters' computer guy was like, "No—it's like **4.3**. He's the right price on this game." They had the *best edge ever*. He made a lot of money. Super successful.

Sam Parr

and billy walters he I think I saw a sixty minutes special on him is he the he's a he's a southern guy

Shaan Puri

he's a southern guy wait what southern guy

Sam Parr

yeah I I read him I read about him alright you know I saw the sixty minutes and he was exactly like I thought he was going to be like he seemed like a fast talking wheeling and dealing

Haralabos Voulgaris

no no no not a fast talker the number one thing billy walters had going for him is he's from the south and if you're a gambler one of the greatest things you can have going for him is people thinking you're not as intelligent as fast talking

Sam Parr

I don't mean I guess I shouldn't have said fast talking I guess I mean like charming charming

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah oh yes yeah I know but he's like well I like to bake a bed if I could I mean I like

Sam Parr

to make

Haralabos Voulgaris

a performance game but the thing about billy is like people underestimated how sharp he was early on but he's as sharp as they come did you have any you

Shaan Puri

know like in the movies where it's like at some. The casino's like facial recognition they're like don't let this guy bet anymore you know tape you in the back and bruise you up a little bit like did you ever run into problems with winning too

Haralabos Voulgaris

much so the way sports betting works you're not usually betting in the casino you're betting with like back then when I was at my heyday you were betting with literal like street people so that had like corner bookmaking operations the casinos are for losers and people who can't win and if you win they'll just not let you bet anymore and so so you need to find a way to bet on credit through like you need to find someone who's gonna play a game of telephone with you who's gonna take your bets and then maybe bet more later or thinks you're a loser like or or you find a sock like my big business like nobody nobody knew who I was nobody knew I was winning money betting because I was never the guy making the bets I'd always find what's called a beard who would make my bets for me and so I've had numbers of like numerous beards throughout the years who were making my bets for me and they were the you know either they were really successful business people or degenerate gamblers or like hollywood people or like floyd mayweather who's a beard for like half an afternoon for me how did that go yeah he just wasn't he wasn't he was too difficult to work with I mean he's got so much money and he's not just

Sam Parr

like impulsive

Haralabos Voulgaris

nah like dude he'd been hit in the head for like most of his life like you know

Sam Parr

he's how

Haralabos Voulgaris

much how much yeah he doesn't have

Shaan Puri

to have a big board he's a huge bankroll couldn't he have just piggybacked off your bet you're telling him go bet

Haralabos Voulgaris

I think floyd was already moving for someone else whether it was billy walters or someone like for sure someone got into floyd and floyd making those bets like nobody posts their bets on instagram for millions and millions of dollars unless there's an angle whether they're sponsored by the casino or they're so yeah I think he was moving money for someone but someone introduced I sat next to him at a miami heat playoff game and he liked my friend who was sitting next to me he took a liking to her and so they became friends and so we somehow had a situation where for an afternoon him and the guy his business guy and I were talking and floyd was gonna make the bets but it just didn't work I told them I won to bet one game and they said no we like the other side and I was like that's cool but can you please go bet this one for me and they're like no we don't wanna do that like we wanna bet the other side and I was like okay well then just we'll just bet against each other you bet that side I'll bet this side and they're like no but you always win we can't do that and I was just like okay I'm out I can't deal with this anymore so that was it

Sam Parr

is the motivation on all this getting rich or is it getting a rush is it an intellectual challenge what's the motivation

Shaan Puri

it's not

Haralabos Voulgaris

A rush? No. The rush is—I'm not a rush guy. I think it's the *intellectual challenge*. Also, I've realized as I've gotten older that I take pride in putting myself in really, really stressful situations and seeing how well I perform. That's probably a weakness of mine: I'll put myself in these really stressful situations without knowing it, but I'll do that.

Shaan Puri

what what's an example of that

Haralabos Voulgaris

Like being all in Bitcoin since February 2013—holding **60% to 70% of your net worth** in it at various points in time.

Sam Parr

a hundred and 60 so you borrowed

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah so betting on sports and making money was challenging and in terms of your winning money like I was living in canada at the time I was betting all over the world and having to receive money from people all over the world and so my bank accounts were constantly getting closed even in canada I was like I'm a professional gambler this is what I do I pay my taxes as a professional gambler I'm one of the few dummies in canada who actually because in canada tax gambling is considered nontaxable so I was like one of the few people who actually paid tax on their gambling winnings in canada because I was considered an expert but I didn't have to but I did that probably stupid on my part but but yeah so just that and then seeing how easy it was to move money with bitcoin and then and then the other part of it was later on in life I left canada after I got tired of paying taxes in canada and I moved to monaco and that entire principality is built on minimizing your tax exposure it's it's you know we're looking at flats that are like the current places in monaco now that just got built are $8,590,000,000 dollars for a 3,000 square foot condo it's the most expensive real estate in the world and the only reason it's that expensive is because there's a limited amount of land and everyone lives there because a tax is zero zero tax and so my.

Haralabos Voulgaris

Is is that that whole that's like a swiss bank account move people are willing but whereas there's a lot of people whether they're whereas bitcoin you can you can you don't have to invest in monaco real estate to hedge you can have your money in your pocket you don't have to worry about a bank you can move money intermediate without any intermediates on your permission even the bank accounts I had whether they be in monaco or canada they'd always been like why are you sending this money where is it going why did you get it and now it's even worse so that was part of it I like the I like the math behind it it made sense to me as a math guy yeah I just and I'm an independent guy to begin with and so it didn't really click for me until later on I heard about it maybe five or six times before it finally clicked it finally clicked because I was betting with someone in china who had owned who had had a really difficult time in paying me money also I was living in vancouver before I moved to and my entire apartment building was owned by chinese expats who are literally laundering their money in canadian real estate none of them lived in my building the entire building was empty except for six people but the entire building was sold and all of vancouver if you ever been to vancouver canada it's an it's an entire money laundering operation the real estate is all owned by foreign people trying to escape regimes that are you know there's capital flight so bitcoin just made sense okay I'm gonna go buy a a condo in canada or I'm gonna buy some bitcoin and put it in my wallet to escape some totality some regime some capital flight

Sam Parr

So, were you taking the 10,000,000 gross earnings and just going straight to Bitcoin?

Haralabos Voulgaris

no then I was get I was trying to get paid by people who owed me money and so this the first person the first time I ever acquired bitcoin I had a a gentleman in in fellow that I met playing poker who got me a bunch of accounts in china to bet on nba basketball or asia let's say I don't know where it was exactly but somewhere and he was like it was february and I was like hey like how are you gonna send me money at some. We had like an h an hsbc account in hong kong and he's like I can send you bitcoin and I was like bitcoin really you guys like bitcoin I think the price was around $180 at the time he's like yeah everyone in china loves bitcoin and I was just like well if everyone in china loves bitcoin maybe I should love bitcoin too like what is why do they love it in china and he's like explained to why everyone loves it and how great it is and so that was it so I I bought it then it very quickly went to 600 then a thousand like very after and then it and then it slowly went down to about 150 after I think bitfinex got hacked after that the next summer but that's when I got involved and it clicked for me instantly when I was all the situations moving to monaco for taxes seeing my all of the real estate in canada being super expensive for native canadians especially in vancouver because of especially people from asia buying real estate and just holding it and not doing anything with it and I just like why would you like michael saylor now has a really good view on it it's like why would you ever own real estate you're at the mercy of the government who can change the rules and change the taxes or you could just buy bitcoin so that was it basically

Sam Parr

what what when you're dealing with you know I'm not saying that you're shady or you do ever do anything illegal but when gambling as an outs well as an outsider when I hear about gambling I I you know I've I watched the movie casino and I like I know like I think of mafia or whatever

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah

Sam Parr

When you're owed money — and I'd read stories about how you're owed money and you talked about it — what's up with the *gambling culture*? Do people actually pay their debts, or is it all just a *handshake agreement*?

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah yeah I mean I think I had an advantage I mean just to be clear like I lived in canada gambling was legal I paid my taxes I wasn't doing anything illegal some of the people who I'm my customers are all breaking the law because they're bookmakers so I'm not the customer I'm the shark they're the sucker I'm winning the money they may think that I'm the customer but really I'm not so for me the hard part was like okay revenue canada wants 57% of my money as my partner but they're putting all my customers out of business by making it so that that was part of it to answer your question is it hard to get paid yeah people lose money because I'm betting through intermediaries for the most part I think like part of the deal is you have to guarantee the money when you're making the bets and people would go out of their way to guarantee me not because they're afraid of me because why would they be I'm not I've never ever done anything to get money other than be like annoying but like if you knew that I was always going to win and if you didn't pay me you knew you were not gonna get my bets anymore you might go out of pocket to make sure your relationship with me was good knowing that eventually you're gonna make the money back if you're smart enough if you're smart enough you'd realize why would I step for rolibos rolibos is gonna win we're gonna win it back next year I'll go out of pocket we'll figure out a solution that's generally what happened with me

Sam Parr

that's a good threat though you look I'm gonna call you like at least five or six times to get paid

Haralabos Voulgaris

I know. I didn't even... I was *pretty bad* at it, to be honest. The way to get paid is to be the most annoying person in that person's life. So I had a famous poker player—like, a really good dude—but he was for sure *degenerate*, and he owed me money. Not, like, this guy Eric Lindgren; he talked like... he, you know.

Sam Parr

that's what I was referring to yeah

Haralabos Voulgaris

Yeah. If he won a tournament, I'd get on a plane and be there when they paid him. I'd just hang out—I mean, *you just gotta know.* But you also have to be kind of understanding that this guy needs to live his life and also have some money. He was a guy who, at the time, owned a piece of **Full Tilt Poker**, so they had all this imaginary money and thought they were going to be so rich. He didn't really worry about getting paid because he thought eventually they'd get paid by Full Tilt Poker. Then Full Tilt Poker got shut down, so... all these guys— Anyways, yeah. That's what you do: you just be annoying.

Shaan Puri

what what inspired you to buy

Haralabos Voulgaris

the soccer team so like where

Shaan Puri

like how long did you had that idea before you end up doing it I wanted

Haralabos Voulgaris

to buy an nba team and then I worked I saw like this sausage was made and I was like yeah the nba's not for me and what do you

Shaan Puri

do by that

Haralabos Voulgaris

why not I mean for one the franchise valuations are going up and up and up and up it's a very very very difficult business to buy because you're competing with the richest people in the world who want these assets so it's very difficult and then I just found I started finding the sport not that interesting anymore after seeing like how everything was I didn't I didn't like I think the the bubble for me kind of ended it because it was during that time when the the league became like which is cool because the league was primarily they became like almost like a social cause versus and I thought that's good for society in some ways if you believe that and but for me it just became too much I just wanted I just wanna sport I just like sport so around that time I didn't wanna you know I didn't wanna I think people I think where the nba maybe missed things is I think a lot of people wanted to escape during coronavirus into sport I want I okay forget about other people I want to escape the shitty the the whatever the riots the burn the whatever I want to escape all that into sport and I'm watching the nba and it's and maybe maybe the answer isn't for maybe the answer isn't escape for people who are I'm not american but maybe for americans who are living through it and they really believe that that whatever that's cool but for me I was just like I don't want to watch this like I just want I just wanna I wanna watch a basketball game I don't wanna have like a message and so yeah it just became it became too much I think in some ways it became overwhelming and then also you're I was working for the mavericks at the same time and they were in the bubble and I'm hearing the stories from them and you have like african american coaches who are like really upset with what's happening as they should be the players are upset it just became like really draining emotionally in a way that made me really kind of sad and I started watching football more because soccer was the first store sport to start up after covid and so I just got really into it and we were already building models to begin with before then I just thought you know what I wanna this is new it's exciting it's more mathematical in the sense of it's unsolved it's a lot more there's a lot the game tree is bigger it's more nuanced basketball's pretty simple you get a top five player you put him on the court you surround him with other players but he's the guy like it's called heliocentrism and then you profit and then you trade him for anthony davis and one first I don't know but that's it you just find a guy like luka or lebron or djokic or whatever and off you go but not that difficult

Sam Parr

you said we you said we are building models I think sean and I were talking and he was like this guy's like a lone wolf no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yeah and I don't know the truth and I want you to tell me the truth do you I think you don't have a family I think you're you're and I think that like from an outside perspective it doesn't seem like you have this massive company like what's

Haralabos Voulgaris

that part I'm a lone wolf yeah okay now I am a lone wolf when you put it that way yeah like I've always been very yeah so I but I have people who work for me I have people who work

Sam Parr

for me yeah I can can you explain that what's your what's the organization what's your

Shaan Puri

team look like

Haralabos Voulgaris

so I have now my organization not counting the football team which is completely separate there's like two fifty people or something worked for me I don't know how many it is it's a lot maybe less I don't know account academy players but no I just have I still do my basketball betting I spend zero time on it it's an automated program but when I first started betting on basketball programmatically with a model when I decided that my method works but it only works if my mindset is good if I wanna have a life and have like emotional relationships with females and have a partnership whatever and I'm upset I'm making bad decisions when I'm gambling it's harder to be like a perfect arbiter of what's right and what's wrong and what's the right information when you're the input so I wanted to automate me basically and so so yeah I I hired a couple different quants unsuccessfully they weren't great kept trying and then a friend of mine a poker player by the name of well he played poker this guy named brandon adams was teaching at harvard at the time and I was playing poker with him really really smart guy and he said I have this student that I think you need to talk to he's a genius and he'd be perfect and I met him and that was the guy who basically together we built our simulation models that really took me to the next level which was not the little the halftime thing which I made a lot of money on this was now full game bets on you know sides totals everything and so him and I together built and our operation was myself this individual and then one person who basically was two people who were putting the bets in and also making the lineups and then me and my the person we call him the wiz because he doesn't wanna be nobody wants to know who he is but he's out there what's up and we had a we had a falling out he doesn't we're not a falling out but he when I went to go work for the mavs I basically turned over the business to them and he ran it for a while didn't enjoy it they didn't do that well and he left and then when I quit the mavs we started back up again and that was it so I basically did the gambling again not for myself but for the people who worked for me to allow them to make continue to make a lot of money because I've had guys who've worked for me now for over twelve or thirteen years with a gap with a gap.

Haralabos Voulgaris

In mavericks and so they run everything and they do everything

Sam Parr

dude you're basically running it like a like a small little seed fund sean you know what I mean

Shaan Puri

like a hedge fund

Haralabos Voulgaris

algorithmic hedge fund like jump -

Shaan Puri

you know so you know those guys they measure their success on you know irr or you know annual returns and if if they could get 20% thirty % returns what's a good annual return for you what's a bad annual return for you where do you land I know what multifamily can get to you I know what private equity can get to you I know what venture can

Haralabos Voulgaris

get to you it's hard to really quantify because I'm never able to bet my entire network like I can't take in outside capital and so like we're I don't look at it as like an annual arr or an it's more of a return on investment on every bet you're making and so every bet we make a bad year for us was four and a half four four to four and a half% on every bet we're making a good year is like in the eights and nines and now of course you wanna have as many bets as possible and the most profit as possible so you want your roi to go down a little bit as your bets go up so it's like you're threading the needle but the game has changed so much now that now we've got two models that are going at all times and we use like a a mix between two of them and it's when I say it's automated it's completely automated like zero last four or five years since even before I you know even when these guys are running it themselves like nobody's saying oh I don't I think the model's wrong like it gets teams wrong for sure and we have a guy who says like yeah we're really off on these oklahoma city totals like we we we think they should be higher scoring but they're not we think they're gonna be lower score we think they're higher scoring but they're going under and I'm just like cool we're not making any changes like we have a model

Sam Parr

and has you know now I we said this before I don't pay attention to just too much of sports I think it's fucking insane though that like every sport is basically a gambling thing now like it's like gross like it's I think it's weird but it's

Haralabos Voulgaris

not weird it's gross

Sam Parr

Yeah, it's *messed up*. I think it's wrong. But does that make you richer, then, because you have more retail investors?

Haralabos Voulgaris

Yeah. The amount of... I don't even look. Last night, I probably lost more money on **Fartcoin**. My Fartcoin holding, on paper, is more than what I would make in an entire year betting the **NBA**. I don't care what we make in the **NBA**. I just do it because it's meaningful for the people who work for me, and they have a massive profit share in it. So that's why we do it.

Shaan Puri

so well let me just recap a couple things you said if every bet you know blow in four or 5% good 10% that means you need to bet like a hundred million dollars of total betting volume total yeah total dollars bet to make 10,000,000 is that correct yeah

Haralabos Voulgaris

well you don't need a hundred million to do that because you're doing it every day multiple times over and so yeah so yeah like that's exactly right yeah so couldn't

Shaan Puri

you have just applied your brain to like buying hvac companies as like private equity and gotten better returns right like you know like I always think about this with like if I hear somebody's a pro blackjack player I'm like first of all I don't even know if that's act technically a thing I don't know if blackjack is like a game you can get an edge in anymore but secondly if you're that good and that smart like couldn't you just apply it to an easier game and made more money like don't you think about that for yourself yeah

Haralabos Voulgaris

if my dad was ray dalio I probably would've went a different path but unfortunately my dad was my dad was a greek gambler who spent his time at the racetrack so this is what I knew he I don't know what else to say

Sam Parr

but you have done it you have done it right you're buying a team that seems like it could be a a great business move and you did crypto

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah the crypto thing is really the part I think that is because the I don't have an edge in finance these people have bigger they're smarter like maybe I could have honed in on one specific category that I knew very well but again like I try to like I I'm a gambler in the sense that I like gambling games but like the number one edge in poker is playing with players who are worse than you that's just it and so I try to apply that also to my businesses I try to stay away from people that are smarter than me where there's plenty of them in terms of that I'm competing against and so yeah I mean am I gonna compete with like no I don't think so I mean maybe but at this. I think I'm good at what I'm doing I like my quality of life

Sam Parr

well what do you do with your money now do you like your income or your investments do you do do you do any boring stuff I mean I mostly do boring stuff index funds yeah

Haralabos Voulgaris

I do super bore I sup do super boring stuff every dollar I earn goes directly into bitcoin that's my boring stuff

Sam Parr

is that so that's still how how you roll then

Haralabos Voulgaris

correct yeah

Sam Parr

wow

Haralabos Voulgaris

every dollar I make betting sports goes into bitcoin has forever I just so

Sam Parr

you made more money off bitcoin than you have sports betting

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah for sure yeah I've done very well with bitcoin I've done very well but you know

Shaan Puri

What's your **endgame** with Bitcoin? Is it "hold forever"? Is it that Bitcoin becomes a global reserve currency? Where does it—there's no **exit** with Bitcoin, right, for you?

Haralabos Voulgaris

I don't know I wish I could do better michael saylor impersonation but I don't know this guy I like this guy I feel like his endgame as crazy as this guy is I feel like he's kind of he's a savant like he's kind of figured what is your endgame I don't know dollars what am I gonna do with dollars dollars like sorry they're printing more of it it doesn't seem like it works for me I remember being in covid living in malibu during covid and the houses that I had rented had gone up in value like triple like rich people's stuff was going becoming more and more expensive as more and more money entered the system so what's my end game I don't know protect my wealth I guess maintain my sovereignty that's my end game I don't know like just to be clear I don't have it in I like bitcoin but it's still I'm not like the pure bitcoin guys like the guys who have their own seed and they have it memorized in their head that's not me my money's in ibit it's in the bank it's with a third party it's not smart but I like my quality of life I don't wanna be my own bank being my own bank was cool before people knew what crypto was now being your own bank is not cool for me just to be clear I love bitcoin I love the self sovereignty of it that's the ethos but my money is custodied with institutions unfortunately

Sam Parr

do you own anything like do you own any real estate and cars and like items or do you live light

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah dude I feel like a lot of this guy thinks I'm like some kinda like

Shaan Puri

I'm like an alien

Haralabos Voulgaris

who just dropped into the world that has nothing well you I love you that's why I'm big fun and watching sports all day

Sam Parr

sean and I actually both rent homes and I don't I I I actually don't own a lot of stuff I I like living light sean does too and we don't actually own houses we like to own houses I'm not

Haralabos Voulgaris

So recently I was with you guys, and I didn't own any real estate. I had bought real estate when I was younger, but before that I thought the better move was **Bitcoin**. Why buy a house in Malibu when I can rent and buy **Bitcoin**? I sold... I also sold all of my assets during the 2017 dump. I owned property—I own property in Mexico, some vacation property, and some property in Europe. I had a plane. I sold it all. Actually, some friends tried to schedule an intervention because they thought I'd lost my mind when I sold everything to buy more **Bitcoin** at $3,300.

Shaan Puri

wow you you sold all your shit to buy the dip that's incredible that's amazing I gotta ask you a different question what are you into now like we asked you a bunch about the past but like what's the future shit you're really like somebody said you're into biohacking or you're you're into yeah

Haralabos Voulgaris

I mentioned something interesting about owning things and no

Shaan Puri

I'm just kidding

Haralabos Voulgaris

"I'm just kidding. What am I into now? I'm into *biohacking*. I'm into... yeah, I don't know. I think I'm into—it's interesting because I'm really into *analog things*: records, books, old games, old pinball machines."

Shaan Puri

yeah are you like detoxing from phone like phone goes away for hours

Haralabos Voulgaris

and days

Shaan Puri

yeah I'm

Haralabos Voulgaris

getting this new oh I forgot what it's called but this new thing that's black and white I'm trying to what's it called I'm into that I think o box is is the new one that that just came out palma palma two I think is what it is it's supposed to be getting shipped but that looks really cool

Sam Parr

we love those things I use the brick all the time and then there's daylight which is another like dumb phones basically

Haralabos Voulgaris

daylight's nice I've used daylight yeah yeah I'm into that I'm into like to be honest like during covid I started getting into western life this is gonna sound crazy but I want a ranch

Shaan Puri

yes I bought a ranch

Sam Parr

I bought a ranch my friend do you wanna be buddies

Haralabos Voulgaris

I would love to eat that I bought a yacht before it was on the mediterranean cruising and now I'm like nah I want a ranch I want horses I want simple life so that's what I'm into

Shaan Puri

what are you doing for biohacking like what what what's your kind of like what's I guess maybe what are you finding valuable or helpful or or you're seeing the

Haralabos Voulgaris

best thing yeah I'll I do I do a lot of peptide stuff I kind of grew up in like or I spent a lot of time I should say in like rich guy la circles for a minute playing poker and all these guys were on like trt and hgh and all this other stuff and they looked great but they weren't necessarily optimizing for living longer so hgh is great you feel awesome on it but you're definitely not living longer taking it trt I think can be good for some people it didn't work for me I tried it it made me irritable so I I do other things to raise my testosterone like I take some rodacea whatever and fudociart testis and I do a lot of squats and kettlebell stuff and so I do quite well with that but what am I taking I'm taking peptides for the most part I think the best thing I've ever done I do a lot of sauna red light therapy I would say the best thing-

Sam Parr

that brian johnson regimen

Haralabos Voulgaris

I mean yeah I admire what he's doing I just think like what's the I mean he's doing it for science I guess but for me it's yeah not for me I'm not that bad but I do have I take about twenty supplements a day for sure I inject myself with some peptides when I'm diligent about it but I think the best thing I've ever done with stem cells

Shaan Puri

are you doing peptides in stem cells for injury recovery or you're doing I thought peptides is like for injury recovery do you use it for other stuff

Sam Parr

a peptide's like a protein yeah like or an amino acid I guess which is a precursor to proteins

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah it's a pre it's a precursor you can find a peptide it's a precursor for whatever you wanna solve for so like some is for injury recovery like dpc-one hundred and fifty seven that's what I took

Sam Parr

I took that from my achilles it was great

Haralabos Voulgaris

Yeah, but it also—by the way—that also helps your gut, which then connects to your brain and helps your brain. There are a lot of benefits to it. I take *tesamorelin*, *ipamorelin*, and *hexarelin* through my doctor. I get tested very regularly—my blood is tested very, very regularly. The best thing I've ever done, and the thing I would recommend to anyone who can afford it, is—aside from using a sauna five times a week—getting actual stem cells: **mesenchymal stem cells from the umbilical cord**.

Sam Parr

do you do that if you have an injury or like I feel great like do you did you were you okay you look right

Haralabos Voulgaris

So, you're probably—yeah. I mean, I... No, you both look like you're doing great with your health. I'm not sure how, but you look like you're doing great. Do people do it for injury? I did it because I wanted to feel better. I found this place in Panama—the **Stem Cell Institute**—and they were kind of one of the pioneers behind it: **Dr. Reordan**. I think Mel Gibson's dad may have talked about this on the Joe Rogan show. I'd already gone there, but I think there's an episode where Mel Gibson talks about his dad going there to get stem cells. I've seen similar things—it's unbelievable. Is this the one?

Shaan Puri

where it's like its own sovereign land

Haralabos Voulgaris

no I don't know what that is but this is just panama you're at like your state of hilton last time I don't think it was sovereign oh I know what you're talking about I do know what you're talking about no it's nothing like that

Sam Parr

aren't they doing genetic they're doing genetic chris what's it called chris pearl yeah they're doing that right it's like a peter thiel thing

Haralabos Voulgaris

they're doing genome editing yeah I don't want none of that I just want I want building blocks into my body to make me young so if he can give me the stuff that little baby has to grow a fucking actual human body

Sam Parr

wait what are these guys doing it's like their own little sovereign area and they're like building like the future yao ming super baby or something

Shaan Puri

you you know like the network state stuff right where it's basically like oh if we can get like you know I invested in praxis it's like people wanna create create new lands where they can have like you know let's say more they can have different rules right for themselves it's yeah

Sam Parr

it's like a it's like a land where like ayn rand is the president you know like it's it's like libertarian it's like libertarian land

Shaan Puri

You gotta watch the documentary — it's *hilarious*. Brian goes there; I think he goes for a full plasma swap with his son and his dad or something like that. I don't remember the exact procedure he did, but he goes, and it's the two scientists who created this institute. They show a guy who's clearly like 22 years old — he's so young — but he has this mustache and glasses with a rope, as if... bro, we can see through the disguise. You're 22 years old. And the... the narrator...

Sam Parr

was he standing on another kid's shoulders with a trench coat on

Shaan Puri

exactly he literally looked like that and he's like you know I think these guys' hearts are the right place but you know they're not like twenty year phds if you know what I mean it's like yeah because he's 20

Haralabos Voulgaris

it

Shaan Puri

was it was so funny you gotta watch that part

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah and I actually did watch it and I know what you're talking about now and I remember like I had my finger this is where I need my digital whatever but I had my finger on the fast forward the entire time I'm like cause you can't watch it all the way through it's just like what is this is not that interesting but yeah I didn't like talking about it now yeah it's nothing like that this is more for you have a rotator cuff injury some parents were there with some kids who were were autistic and they were doing that therapy it was people with ms there were a lot of different stuff that they were doing and I had the most I've done it maybe seven times the injuries you have will repair permanent that's permanent the superman feeling you have for three to four months afterwards is fleeting but it feels amazing for that two or three months. And the there's a lot of physiological effects that you know that you got a good batch sometimes you don't get a good batch or it doesn't take but if you had a good batch you'll know it and it's yeah it's great I haven't done it in a while but it

Sam Parr

is amazing do you do any drugs or drink alcohol do you get like fucked up at all no or so

Shaan Puri

you're sober

Haralabos Voulgaris

yeah I've just never I think the last time I ever got I mean I was betting on nfl football and canadian football and university and waking up with a hangover and I was just like yeah this doesn't work

Sam Parr

so you've been in this like vice for this world a world of vice but not substances and like you're no

Haralabos Voulgaris

I'm not too much of a control... I'm a control. I like to be *in control* of myself. I like to be in control of my emotions. I like to be making good decisions. I don't like being unable to think rationally, so **alcohol doesn't do it for me**.

Shaan Puri

dude this is great thanks for thanks for doing this man where should people follow you is twitter still the best place or

Haralabos Voulgaris

x yeah I mean follow the football club I'm not looking to promote myself but I I would love for the football club to get more you know we were doing some great things this year at the football club and then you

Shaan Puri

guys won right you won the like we

Haralabos Voulgaris

"We were recently promoted to **LaLiga 2**. We had an amazing start to the season. Then we had a stretch where we played 22 games in six days. I failed the culture in that I wasn't able to demand that we do things that were proper for rest and health for the players, and we ran our players into the ground during that period. Because I didn't insist — and that was something the coaches wanted to do — we then suffered some injuries. We've been in the midst of a six-game losing streak right now, which is sad, and we're paying for what we did in November, which was a **cultural failure on my part**."

Shaan Puri

so I have

Haralabos Voulgaris

a lot of are you able

Sam Parr

to like apply the biohacking shit that you're learning to your sports psychology

Haralabos Voulgaris

not in the medicine part of it but like there's lots of studies on how to optimize health and and what the your your risk of muscle injury goes up twenty five% if you if a football player plays more than one game every six days there's plenty of research that can make you come to good decisions but like for sleep and recovery and we're gonna do a better job and we're when I bought the team we didn't even have a training facility so we're building a brand new training facility we hope to announce the land that we've acquired soon and yeah we'll do we'll do stuff like that

Sam Parr

mostly because that one you were gonna go from like doing these bets and hanging out with your dad in vegas to owning a team and implementing like whatever you wanna implement that's pretty wild right that's a good that's a good ending so far or it's not the end but it's a

Shaan Puri

good part

Sam Parr

of the story

Haralabos Voulgaris

you did think that

Sam Parr

you thought that

Haralabos Voulgaris

I did I was very delusional when I was younger I was very like I'm a very I'm really I'm really a big fan of that sort of stuff like speaking things not speaking into but just like having the belief and why not why not I mean I know the universe is kinda there if you do it like you you can craft your own path just keep trying until you get there

Sam Parr

dude you're insane you're the man awesome you're the man you're

Shaan Puri

the man thanks for coming on dude

Sam Parr

you yeah

Shaan Puri

you're welcome

Sam Parr

well thank you man that's it that's the pod