World’s #1 Mentalist: How To Read Minds, Influence Anyone, and Never Fear Rejection

- March 30, 2026 (about 7 hours ago) • 52:28

Transcript

Start Time	Speaker	Text
00:00	Sam Parr	"How to convince people and win them over is the most important thing in life. How did you do that?"
00:04	Oz Pearlman	There are skills that have nothing to do with my tricks that allow me to walk into a room, be remembered, engage with people, and create deeper bonds. Those three things are a cheat code in life. But I would say 90% of people don't have that. So how do you develop that?
00:20	Sam Parr	How do you explain what you do? </FormattedResponse>
00:21	Oz Pearlman	Everyone knows that a magician is...
00:22	Sam Parr	Think of this as a magician of the mind. There are no props.
00:26	Oz Pearlman	Rather than tell you, "Here—pick a card," you put it back, and I find it.
00:30	Sam Parr	So intimidated. You are a "horrible herring" [unclear transcription]. Are there any "cool" that you could commit? [unclear phrasing]
00:35	Oz Pearlman	So, if I was using this to steal your financial information and then use it to potentially steal from you, could I do that? Absolutely. Could I—could I? Absolutely. Watch. Let's try something really fun: "time for money." This is the perfect example. Let's say—what is life about, right? Is it having more zeros in your bank account? "My first million"—I like the two commas. But where do you spend that money? How do you use it effectively? Here's what you do: you're having a birthday party. We're going to hypothetically play this out right now. Milestone birthday—Sam, make this up right now; I like spontaneity. How many guests are in the room at your birthday party? Be very specific. How many guests do you see being there?
01:19	Sam Parr	Can tell you.
01:20	Oz Pearlman	Yeah, make it up right now.
01:21	Sam Parr	Small 10.</FormattedResponse>
01:22	Oz Pearlman	Oh, so it's 10 people — 10 people. Did everyone that you invited attend? No. Oh, okay... ouch. Okay, so you're in the room. Now this is where I want to envision this; we're going to play this scenario out because you've had birthday parties before and obviously you've seen — you walk in the room, you're saying hi. It's 10 people. Close your eyes. Is it a surprise or not a surprise? Is it... yes? Okay. So you've walked around the room, you've said hi to people, and open your eyes. This is where I tell you: one person you walk up to, they give you a big old hug and it means a lot that you're here right now. You look this person in the face — can you picture that person's face? Yes. Could I have known that you were going to tell me there were 10 people at the birthday party? I don't know. But did I tell you to set this up? Is there any way I could have known how many people you'd have at this party or who they would be?
02:11	Sam Parr	Of course not.
02:11	Oz Pearlman	"How—right? How? And then, the person that would hug you, right? How could we know this? If they had a birthday party, a milestone—would you attend their party?"
02:21	Sam Parr	For a really big one.
02:23	Oz Pearlman	"That's interesting—how you thought of a really big one. I wonder if they live far, and in your mind you're thinking, 'Have I been to their party before?' Watch this. Let's switch it. Somebody just came up; they hugged you at your birthday party. It could have been anyone. You looked them in the eye and you were thinking in your head, 'Would I go to their birthday party?' And I saw... I know you know this person's birthday instantly. I could tell—I'm trying not to react. January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. Close your eyes. Okay—I'm going to [point to the camera]. Open your eyes. There is absolutely no way I can know who you would have thought of. Are we in agreement? Yeah? Or anything about them—personal details. What month is that person born in?"
03:09	Sam Parr	July
03:09	Oz Pearlman	July, July, July. July has 31 days. I'm born in July; that's my birthday month. Think: beginning, middle, end. Beginning, middle, end. Close your eyes.
03:18	Sam Parr	One more time. So, nobody? Okay—I'm gonna go.</FormattedResponse>
03:20	Oz Pearlman	With this, I'm gonna go with this. I'm gonna commit. I think it's a guy. Open your eyes. In fact, when you looked at them, you looked up directly at them. Similar height — are they older than you?
03:30	Sam Parr	They're older than me.
03:31	Oz Pearlman	I could tell it was a different thing. "What's their birthday?" "July 10." "July 10." And then you gave them a hug. You looked them right in the eye and you go, "It really means a lot that you're here." John — is it John?
03:45	Sam Parr	Yes, that's crazy. I hate that my brother's name is John. That's... that's absolutely insane. That's crazy. It makes me emotional a little bit — it's my brother. I was telling my [unclear]... We had a nanny at our house this morning, and I was like, "I'm talking to this guy. He's a mentalist," and she's like...
04:09	Oz Pearlman	Yeah.
04:09	Sam Parr	"What is there? Oh — what do you explain, or how do you explain what you do?"
04:12	Oz Pearlman	So, everyone knows that a magician is... So, think of...
04:15	Sam Parr	This as a magician of the mind.
04:17	Oz Pearlman	There are no props. Rather than tell you, "Here—pick a card, put it back, and I find it," I can just have you think of a card and see if I can deduce where your mind went. It's how to influence people. It's how to pick up on what they're thinking and how to make it seem as if I can read people's minds—right, which we all know is impossible. But I say it all the time: "I can't read minds. I don't possess supernatural powers. I am not psychic. I don't talk to the dead. I don't know the future." I've just found ways to influence you and get information out of you that you can't explain through a variety of different methods. It's kind of an elevated form of magic. It truly is. I find the purest form of entertainment is stand-up comedy: it's you, a microphone, and potentially thousands, tens of thousands, or millions of people—just the spoken word. Magic involves props, and I don't— I don't dislike magic. I love magic. I started as a magician, but as I evolved I got rid of the props, rid of the props, rid of the props. If you saw me last night, I did a show for 1,200 people; in a few days I'll do a show for 4,000 people. I will show up with virtually nothing. If you lost my luggage, I could do the show with literally a marker and a flip chart, because that's not the show—the show is me. To describe it: I'm a magician of the mind.
05:36	Sam Parr	Well, what's interesting about what you do is that I've known who you are for a while because I studied magic when I was a kid. I was a very stereotypical, nerdy, introverted kid who wanted to be loved by people, and I studied this stuff.
05:48	Oz Pearlman	"Join the club."
05:49	Sam Parr	Yes, which I want to talk to you all about—that club. I've known about you for a little bit, and then I was reading your book. I thought I was going to learn more about how to read people's minds or how to do magic or something like that. You're basically like a modern version of How to Win Friends and Influence People.
06:03	Oz Pearlman	"That's the hook." If I could distill all of the skills I've learned in the last 30 years doing what I do—which is really interacting with people—that's truly what I do. I've learned that what my product is, and everyone should know what their product is, is people. People always think you're there to fool them if you're a magician. That's not it at all. I create very memorable moments. For a lot of the companies I work for, what I mean by "memorable moments" is that when I leave, people talk about something. The skills that I use within my profession are not the magic and not the mentalism. If I quit this business today and started a new business tomorrow, what could I use from these 30 years that would make me successful at any business? I believe these are the core skills. So it's a reinvention of that book.
06:44	Sam Parr	Alright, so a lot of people watch and listen to this show because they want to hear us just tell them exactly what to do when it comes to starting or growing a business. A lot of people message Sean and me and they say, "Alright, I want to start something on the side — is this a good idea? Is that a good idea?" What they're really saying is, "Just give me the ideas." Well, friends, you're in luck. My old company, The Hustle, put together 100 different side-hustle ideas and appropriately called it the Side Hustle Idea Database. It's a list of 100 pretty good ideas, frankly. I went through them — they're awesome. It gives you how to start them, how to grow them, and things like that. It gives you a little bit of inspiration. So check it out. It's called the Side Hustle Idea Database — it's in the description below. You'll see the link; click it, check it out, and let me know in the comments what you think. What are the one or two things that most transform people's lives based on what they learned from your book or from you?
07:39	Oz Pearlman	I think one of the biggest ones is how to make your fear of rejection disappear. To me personally, I could see it from a young age — it was my biggest hurdle. The book starts out with me in my teenage years. I got into magic when I was 13. I don't know, when were you saying that again? </FormattedResponse>
07:54	Sam Parr	Cordova. Scotch & Soda, of course. God, that was my— I remember I got that trick, and then the quarter trick. Yep. And yeah, that was my first... you.
08:03	Oz Pearlman	I saw David Blaine's "Street Magic." I was buying everything—I was really into trick decks. So I started doing the tricks, and I got a restaurant gig when I was 14. I walked in—I talk about it in the book—I don't know where I got the cojones to go in there. My mom was with me, and I knew how to do a sales call at a young age: how to go in, how to convince them, how to use benefits-oriented language. I got this gig, and within two weeks of doing it I realized that my biggest hurdle was that when I went up to people, they would reject me, and it hurt. You know what I mean, Sam? Like, you go to three tables in a row and they're like, "Get out of here, kid." It's very bruising. It's very difficult to approach the next table and not have a bad attitude. And so again, I saw this vision: I want to buy more tricks. Tricks are expensive. My parents were divorced; I didn't have money. So if I keep doing this, I need this path to make money to buy more tricks. It was very linear—A to B. So I realized I had to find a way to overcome this part where people have the ability to hurt my feelings, and I had to... so I just...
09:01	Oz Pearlman	And I described it really clearly. I almost became my own agent. If you're in showbiz, you have an agent who handles your negotiations — who does all the icky stuff you don't want to do. You don't get a movie star on the phone. I can't call Michael B. Jordan right now and negotiate; you negotiate with this person's agent. I didn't have an agent. I'm a 14-year-old twerp, four-foot-nothing, walking up to your table at an Italian restaurant. So I created this separation in my mind where I no longer took it personally when I was rejected. I said, "That's not me. They don't know Ose Perlman. That's Ose, the magician." It was this cognitive dissociation where I was able to take the negativity and put it on someone else they don't know: "Oh, it's the tricks — I gotta work on these tricks." I didn't take it personally, and it was truly transformative. I believe that ability to overcome rejection — or, really, the fear of it and of failure — is crucial. So many people, when they start a business or go after their goals, don't go all in because they keep one foot out. It's like you don't jump in; you keep one foot out to protect yourself if it goes wrong. That's what I've learned. What sets me apart from my competitors, I think greatly, is that ability to focus on goals and not care if there are hurdles. I don't care if there's a "no" or a "no" or "no" — it's a not yet. And I have to do this.
10:15	Oz Pearlman	"Achieved way more than I thought I would, and I'm not even done — I'm nowhere close."
10:20	Sam Parr	When I was 14, I remember I read this book called "The Game." Have you ever read "The Game" by any...? </FormattedResponse>
10:24	Oz Pearlman	Of course, Neil. Oh my God — it has a little bit of an... factor, but the way it discusses, quantifies, and creates terminology for interactions with people is incredible.
10:34	Sam Parr	So, the game is a book, basically. Think "pick."
10:36	Oz Pearlman	Up artist.
10:37	Sam Parr	I think I was 14. It created this word, "pick-up artist." I read it because it felt a little James Bond–y — like an adventure book about these nerdy guys trying to hook up with girls. But the reality is, I read it (and many other people did) because I was 14 and desperate to get someone to like me. I wanted a relationship. I didn't want casual hookups — that wasn't even a possibility. It was more like, "Can I please convince a girl to like me?" So I studied that book. Then I started reading your work and watching your podcast. You talk about approaching people and say things like, "I'll approach someone..." I think what you say — and you've talked about this a bunch — is, "I have to walk into a room of 500 people or 10 people, and I have to control the energy."
11:16	Oz Pearlman	Yep.
11:17	Sam Parr	I've learned that if I walk up to them, I'll say, "Hey, I gotta run in a second, but before I leave, I've been told by the owner of the restaurant to do something special for you." That seems like you just made that phrase up, but every part of that sentence has a very particular purpose. Yes. And when you study how to meet girls, it's like: just put a time constraint on that — make it clear you're leaving soon. "Oh — he's coming up at an angle as if he's going..." [trails off]
11:39	Oz Pearlman	Straight out of the game. I'm not even trying to window-dress it — that's 100% things that were learned in the game and that are from the world of pickup artists. It's iterating; it's just like any type of software platform: changing little ingredients in a recipe and seeing how they do. The other part of the recipe is other people and what makes them feel comfortable. A big one that I analyze is: when you leave an event, who did you remember? I'm obsessed with that term — "who did you remember, who stood out to you and why?" Normally you don't think about it. In the game, who are the naturals? The people who have natural game who didn't learn it. How do they know? They walk up and they have this cool, calm composure. What's it like when you walk into a bar? You smile, you approach the first person you look at and you say, "Hey, how's it going? Oh, I had to come say hi to you." That confidence is contagious. That energy of someone who does that naturally. But I would say 90% of people don't have that. So how do you develop that? How do you not have the fear of, "Oh, what am I gonna say to them?" or "If they say this, they're gonna think I'm stupid?" All of the inner dialogue that kind of talks you out of what you could be at your full potential. The packaging was magic for me when I was a kid. But underneath the magic and the skill that we bring to the table — especially as a mentalist having done this for so many years — there are skills that have nothing to do with my tricks. Skills that allow me to walk into a room, be remembered, engage with people, and create deeper bonds. Those three things are a cheat code in life. If you're able to do them, you will succeed at anything you do. I don't care what business you're in. I don't care if it's interpersonal. I don't care if you're a teacher who is selling attention to their students or a mom trying to get their kids to listen and eat their vegetables and do...
13:16	Sam Parr	"Their homework: how to convince people and how to win them over. It's the most important thing in life. Are there any cool crimes that you could commit that...?"
13:25	Oz Pearlman	"I mean, I could commit tremendous financial crimes because my job is a con man. It's exactly the same as a con man, but it's an honest con, of course, right? So, a hundred years ago — it's a little fuzzy when — I don't want to call them con men, but psychics who would take your money to talk to dead people or to tell you your future. They would take your money, and that was the transaction. Whether you were getting the product you paid for, I don't know. That's up to you. I'm not going to say whether psychics are real or not. I'm going to let people believe what they want. But whether or not you can prove that is a matter of kind of faith. I am not selling a product that's false or fake. I'm telling you from the start it's fake. I couldn't be more honest: this is built on magic. I have no supernatural psychic powers. It's a learnable, repeatable skill. Well then."
14:16	Sam Parr	Why — why is this not being taught?
14:18	Oz Pearlman	I'm crafting a narrative that doesn't generalize. Again, the beauty of it is that you believe these skills could generalize to every part of your life. They're hyper-focused.
14:29	Sam Parr	Yeah, but I was joking with someone, and I was like, "This guy's so powerful, and he's using it to guess a bunch of losers' ATM PINs — what a waste."
14:38	Oz Pearlman	Seth Meyers was recently on TV with Kate Hudson, and she was talking about me because I did some for Hugh Jackman. It's a great clip. Seth Meyers had the funniest joke. He goes, "You know, I think he might be an alien." He then says, "But why did the aliens send the mentalists here?" And then, "You know what would be great for this — bar mitzvahs and parties..."
14:58	Sam Parr	"Was like, 'What a waste.'"
15:00	Oz Pearlman	Such a good joke — Seth Meyers. Man, very funny. He's a great comedian, and it had me laughing so hard I posted it. It was so funny, but it's also so true. You don't realize how true that is until you think about it in a different sense. So, if I were using this to steal your financial information and then potentially steal from you — could I do that? Absolutely. I absolutely could. It's not that different from what I'm doing: guiding you to give me the information. It's really what scammers do.
15:29	Sam Parr	"Have you—so, we've been in here. I don't know how long we've been in here, but you came in earlier and we talked for ten minutes. Were you... did you clock me for the second that I—like, were you making, are you, like, Robocop, making calculations the whole time?"
15:41	Oz Pearlman	I mean, there's a bunch of calculations. I normally come into these things with a little more info.
15:45	Sam Parr	"Yeah. I felt like... you know that story where someone goes to prison and, on the first day, they have to kick someone's ass?"
15:53	Oz Pearlman	Yeah, that's it. Day One.
15:55	Sam Parr	Yeah, you came in, and I was like...
15:57	Oz Pearlman	"If you want to read the book, the last chapter is me going to jail."
16:00	Sam Parr	I know, and I read that. I spent time in jail, too.
16:02	Oz Pearlman	How many days?
16:03	Sam Parr	Or months. Five days. </FormattedResponse>
16:05	Oz Pearlman	Wow — for what?
16:06	Sam Parr	DUIs and fighting in college. I'm fourteen years sober, but I went through — I was basically intoxicated for, like, years — 24 hours a day.
16:14	Oz Pearlman	And you'd be like a raging drunk, getting into fights.
16:17	Sam Parr	Yeah, I was a risk-taker. I was reckless, and I only cared about myself, so I did a lot of dumb shit.
16:23	Oz Pearlman	"You're just lucky."
16:23	Sam Parr	You made.
16:24	Oz Pearlman	It through it.
16:25	Sam Parr	"Oh my God."
16:25	Oz Pearlman	You're learning the lessons.
16:26	Sam Parr	Getting arrested and going to jail changed my life because I was there and I was like, "What am I doing?" Yeah... this is... And then I read that you were in jail for kind of, like, a serious — it could have potentially...
16:35	Oz Pearlman	Could have ruined my life. I — I used to shoplift. I would shoplift things I didn't even need or want.
16:40	Sam Parr	"Were you good?"
16:42	Oz Pearlman	Amazing. Yeah, but think about it: I was a sleight-of-hand expert. I used to be at a 7‑Eleven — I could shoplift. It was like Mission Impossible. Tom Cruise… remember when he had the CD and he just went like this and it was gone? That was me. Okay, that was literally...
16:53	Sam Parr	"What were you stealing—candy?"
16:54	Oz Pearlman	"I used to steal cigars, and I didn't smoke cigars — so how stupid is that? Can we discuss that for a moment? I would steal them from my friends, and I would..."
17:03	Sam Parr	Take them, and there aren't any cigars behind the counter.
17:05	Oz Pearlman	So I could do it behind the counter, could do it anywhere. Oh man, I'm like an expert. Well, you gotta understand—I'm not gonna give away magic secrets, but I could literally take something in my hands and just go like this and it's gone, and you'd be like, "What the fuck?" I would do that, but also I'd misdirect. I'd say I'm putting it back and it was gone, then you think I put it back. It's kind of like the way you could pickpocket somebody. I could take your phone and say, "Oh, look, in the back," and you don't know that it's already gone. A pickpocket touches you here and does this misdirection—right when you look there. That's training. That's misdirection 101. Beginner: I didn't tell you to look there; you instantly looked there. That's the same tactic I used to steal stuff. So I peer-pressured my friends. I won't tell the whole story—I don't wanna ruin it if anyone does buy the book—but it was in college. It was drunken stupidity. We stole a bunch of stuff from a Papa John's, and then at night we went back to a house party. We were wearing Papa John's T-shirts that we had stolen [unclear: "dirty ones"], and a Papa John's phone going around the house party—about 25 people—shouting, "You want Papa John's? Who wants pepperoni?" and just running around.
18:07	Sam Parr	"Like, you stole someone's cell phone at Papa John's."
18:09	Oz Pearlman	This is too early for a cell phone. This is in 2002. This is like a landline—a broken phone.
18:13	Sam Parr	You, like, unplugged it and took the...
18:14	Oz Pearlman	It was broken. Oh—got it. Because, you know, it's a college one; they have, like, 20 phones on them since all they're doing is answering phones. Got it. So one of them had been cracked—down the middle was a crack. It was broken, so it wasn't attached.
18:24	Sam Parr	But it had the logo on it, so it...
18:25	Oz Pearlman	I had everything, so I just swiped it and put it on. I had, like, a poofy, fake North Face — I don't know if I'm ready for North Face; my jacket right here — like, instantly gone. I just stole that one, and I made my friends go steal something, so they went in. It was a bathroom/locker room, so one of the lockers wasn't closed, all the...
18:40	Sam Parr	Way. So they had.</FormattedResponse>
18:41	Oz Pearlman	It, like, opened by a corner. They just reached in and took a bunch of T-shirts.
18:43	Sam Parr	Got it.
18:43	Oz Pearlman	They were dirty — they turned out to be grease stains.
18:46	Sam Parr	"It's a good caper."
18:47	Oz Pearlman	Yes — great caper. So I got woken up at about two or three in the morning. I was wearing tighty-whities and a Papa John's shirt that was way too big for me because I'm small. A guy woke me up, saying, "Yo — the cops are here." I thought it was a noise violation because I was so drunk and had passed out. I said, "I don't live here, dude. What the fuck — what do you want from me?" He said, "No, the cops are here for you." I was like, "For me?" A minute later they come in and the cops are there. They're like, "You're under arrest." I asked, "Under arrest for what?" They said, "Felony larceny." The word "felony" came out first, and I'm like, "Felony?" I said, "Stealing what?" They said it was from a Papa John's. They didn't even let me put pants on. This was in Big Rapids, Michigan, Mecosta County.
19:36	Sam Parr	Negative 10.
19:36	Oz Pearlman	It's like — yeah, it's like -10°F, and I'm literally perp-walked out. I thank God they let me get — did I get my contacts or my glasses? I can't remember. They let me get my contacts because I was nearly legally blind before I got LASIK. And man, in these tiny tighty-whities, they brought my pants with me. It was so unnecessary. The whole thing: they arrested us, brought us in, and we were in jail for three and a half days.
19:59	Sam Parr	Yeah. I mean, you stole something that...
20:01	Oz Pearlman	It changed my life. I've never stolen since that same instance. I'm a different person. Because of that wrong thing, I can't get a job in finance—the path just is so different. I was very, very smart. I'm not saying that to be cocky, but school came very easily to me, and math came incredibly easy. That allowed me... I'm just so lucky that I was able to get great grades while completely messing up in other sectors of my life. Normally those things have a linear correlation: if you're doing certain drugs, you're probably failing out of school. I wasn't; somehow I was still getting straight A's, doing well, and covering my tracks. So there are differences. And then I stopped drinking a couple years ago. I didn't really have a problem, but it was a change I decided to make, and I think it was a healthier path.
20:47	Sam Parr	When I was a kid, I was a competitive runner. I went to college, like I said, on a running scholarship, and I thought that if I achieved my potential I could at least make the Olympic Trials. I never did, because I partied too much in college. But the hard thing about running is dealing with the pressure before you run. Oh yeah — because you know that even if you win the race and succeed, you're going to be in pain, and regardless, you're going to be nervous. It's a very fear-driven sport, and I developed this alter ego called "the Machine."
21:15	Oz Pearlman	"Nice."
21:15	Sam Parr	Where I was like, "I am a racing horse in the aisle, getting ready to go." Racing horses — they're not nervous; they don't think about any of this. They're just there. So I would think, "I'm just a machine." I would look down on myself and be like, "Well, there's the machine. I am nervous, but it doesn't matter. The machine's not nervous and he's about to race — right? I'm so happy the machine exists." That was like an alter ego. It was the exact same thing: dissociating in order to perform. It's the same thing, actually, with starting a business. I've started and sold a company, and by maybe some traditional measures I've been a success. But I still am incredibly fearful about starting any new project — even before this podcast. What's interesting about starting new things is you realize that, through repetition, you say, "I must accept that this fear is going to happen." But I've practiced so often at getting past the fear, and I just accept that this is part of the journey, not "Why am I fearful?" So I think that most everything someone can improve on. But whether you're going to be in the NBA or not is likely due to: were you born seven feet tall or not.
22:22	Oz Pearlman	Yeah, I would agree.
22:22	Sam Parr	"Like, you can — I mean, a five-foot-five guy can maximize his potential."
22:27	Oz Pearlman	For.
22:27	Sam Parr	Basketball. But—like—LeBron James was born, and he worked hard.
22:30	Oz Pearlman	He worked hard.
22:31	Sam Parr	"Yeah, it's a skill and a talent. Where does this rank on skill versus talent? How much can you teach me in order to be better and to do things like you do?"
22:41	Oz Pearlman	I would like to think that it's mostly skill-based. If you were willing to put in the work, you'd probably get very, very good — there's no question. Where's the ceiling that you hit? That I have gone over? Or that other people at the top of the game would have gone over? I think the core skill for me is one of relentless drive. I'm willing to overcome failure consistently. I'll fail, and I don't mind it. A lot of other people would fail enough times and be like, "oh..."
23:10	Sam Parr	But, like, this failure for you: you're in a group of seven people trying to do a trick, and it just bombs.
23:15	Oz Pearlman	"Yeah, exactly. Bombs, yes."
23:16	Sam Parr	When was the last time you bombed?
23:19	Oz Pearlman	"I—well, define what 'bombing' is again, because as you get better and better, you get to move the goalposts; you get to change the rules. So you're defining something that I define very differently."
23:31	Sam Parr	Got it, so it's not binary.
23:32	Oz Pearlman	It's not binary at all, because you only know if something's right if you knew what was wrong. But listen to me, because that's really poignant: you only know if it's wrong if I've set the terms. "As you think this, I guess this, I didn't get it—it's wrong." What if you're watching a movie and there are three director's cuts and you never saw the other director's cuts? A good example: I did something with Josh Allen [quarterback for the Bills]. He was told, "Have I talked to you? Do we know each other?" He answered, "No." I said, "Set this up, Josh." I gave him the ball and said, "Look around the room and throw the ball to anybody." I wrote it down to show him. He throws it to the first guy. It's him. I say, "Throw it to another guy." I wrote it down—it's him again. It's like, how are you doing this? I guessed the two players he threw the ball to. I said, "I know who you're going to throw the ball to right now. I'm not going to write it. I can prove 100% I know exactly who you're going to throw the ball to." I said, "Put the marker—put this—go throw it somewhere." I said, "I knew you would do that." He's like, "Yeah, how do I know that?" I said, "Think of your ATM PIN code." I asked, "Does your wife even know?" He goes, "No." Everyone started applauding. It was pretty funny—kind of a little rude. I then guessed this guy's ATM PIN. He freaks out. Then I had the two other guys stand up. I asked, "What's your jersey number?" His jersey number's 88. Next guy: "What's your jersey?" 50. Their jersey numbers were— the third guy's ATM PIN. Go to his bank. Amazing trick; no one's ever done that before. What would have happened if I got it miserably wrong? (Which I have before.) I never did the last part. All I did was guess two of these people and then I guessed 18 people and would have blown away, sure—and you would have never seen that. The whole thing, to me, went wrong but you didn't know that. Do you understand what I'm saying? So you don't know what's next. In a lot of the tricks you've had, they're called "multiple outs." I have different ways that this can end. You know, it's like when I did a T-shirt reveal on the Today show and Al Roker goes, "What underwear are you wearing?" I'm like, "You don't even know the half of it, brother."
25:24	Sam Parr	Did you have underwear on?
25:25	Oz Pearlman	No, that's funny. Because you just don't know where I would have gone with it—I don't tell you, and I have the element of surprise to my advantage. As I've gotten better at my craft, I've realized that I get to call the shots and know where it's going to go. A lot of times you don't know if I got it wrong. If I do get it wrong, I will overcome that hurdle and get it right. It's actually stronger because it looks like I got it wrong, and then, "oh my God, he got it after all." It builds drama.
25:54	Sam Parr	Are there people above you where you're like, "Man, I would love to be as good as this person," or are you...
25:59	Oz Pearlman	"That's what I do."
26:00	Sam Parr	Yeah. Are you at the top?
26:02	Oz Pearlman	Again, I'm not going to answer that for you. Just do a Google search and you can kind of figure that out for yourself. But right now, it's indisputable — it's like when you describe LeBron at the moment. But again, you've got to understand there are waves: peaks and valleys. It's silly to ever think that everything's going to stay the same. You've got to stay at the top of your game and keep reinventing. I'm not going to define that for you. I'm going to let you look at objective metrics subjectively. There are tremendous amounts of people that I admire — [unclear: "pew litter"]. There could be kids. There's a 19‑year‑old person; dude does what I'm watching and I'm like, "Wow — this is cutting edge. This is new stuff." It's silly not to learn from everyone. As soon as you stop doing that, you start dying.
26:39	Sam Parr	When you are learning a new trick or a new skill.
26:43	Oz Pearlman	Yep.
26:44	Sam Parr	Can you walk me through your routine—how you focus?
26:47	Oz Pearlman	So, the weird thing about me is that I do so many TV and media appearances. Think of a comedian: a comedian has to work out new material, then they tell the joke at a comedy club—like at the Comedy Cellar—and they keep refining, refining, refining. Then it's very funny, and they've got their material for a special. That's their process. I like the parallel because comedy is the closest thing to what I do. I have to create new material for when I go on TV, because if you keep doing the same thing it gets very tired. So, when you see me on these shows, I'm often doing that trick for the first time ever. For example, the thing with Josh Allen—I'd never done that before. When I did it in the room for them, it was the first time. That's kind of the craziest thing to realize, because I can't "burn" the material I do in my normal sets—like in my corporate show or when I'm performing for paying audience members. If I did that on TV, it would lose its luster for paid performances. So I'm constantly thinking of the ending and rewinding backwards. It's like reverse-engineering, which I think is really my skill set. I went to school for engineering. I know my solution, and I'm just trying to figure out a way to get to it. Do you understand what I mean?
28:04	Sam Parr	Well, a proof of that is I do it with business. When I was 24, with my first company, I—I grew up poor—and I remember distinctly having this feeling: "I'm afraid my mom's car is going to run out of gas."
28:18	Oz Pearlman	Wow.
28:18	Sam Parr	And it created trauma.
28:19	Oz Pearlman	I believe it. Yeah, I was.
28:20	Sam Parr	I don't want to feel that anymore. I want to be rich.
28:22	Oz Pearlman	"You knew you wanted to be rich?" "Yes." "At what age?"
28:25	Sam Parr	19</FormattedResponse>
28:26	Oz Pearlman	Nine. That's pretty interesting.
28:27	Sam Parr	Maybe even before that. At 19, when I went to college, I worked for people who were rich, and I was like, "Rich people are real people."
28:35	Oz Pearlman	Right.
28:35	Sam Parr	Oh my God, this is... a thing I could touch. This isn't like a TV thing. Then I asked a rich person, "What's rich?"
28:41	Oz Pearlman	Right.
28:42	Sam Parr	And they were like, "Well, I spend $50,000 a month," and I was like, "Well, you're the richest person I know," right? And then I looked at this and asked, "Have you heard of a safe withdrawal rate?" They said, "No." So the safe withdrawal rate is: if you have a liquid pot of money, you can withdraw 3% of the money.
28:57	Oz Pearlman	Sure, sure. I didn't know that's what you're calling it, but yeah.
28:59	Sam Parr	Yeah.
28:59	Oz Pearlman	How can you have a perpetual motion machine where you just live off the principal?
29:02	Sam Parr	Yeah, weird. Like "free" — you will never run out of money as long as you stay within the rules that you've created, right? And some rich guy was like, "Well, $50,000 is how much I spend." I was like, "That's an astronomical amount of money." At the time I was spending $1,500 a month in college... I don't know. So I did the math. I'm like, 30%. I was like, "Okay, so I need $20,000,000." So I, like, right.
29:19	Oz Pearlman	So, it's like 600.
29:20	Sam Parr	Yeah, so I was like, "How do I get to $20,000,000 by the age of 30?" Like, okay—well, I think I did this thing called Ikigai. Have you heard of Ikigai? "No." It's: "what you're good at, what the world wants, what the world wants to pay for, what you're passionate about." The goal is to find something in the middle.</FormattedResponse>
29:36	Oz Pearlman	Smart
29:36	Sam Parr	In order to get $20,000,000 by 30 [age], I have to build a company that I could probably sell for $30–$40 million, which means if it's going to be media, I probably have to be doing $18,000,000 in revenue with this EBITDA. The way I would get there is I would create a newsletter that gets to this many subscribers. If I do that by year four, that means by year three I have to be here; year two I have to be here. Then it was like, okay — every month this is where I need to be.
30:03	Oz Pearlman	Wow, that's intense.
30:04	Sam Parr	And so I was like, "Well, if I could just set this up so that all I have to do is worry about what I have to achieve next month, and next month, and next quarter, then I can allow myself not to worry." So it's just like execution mode. The idea was: I'll do that. And so I sold my company when I was 31. So it worked.
30:20	Oz Pearlman	That's the ultrarunner mentality right there. You don't think to yourself, "I've done a race that was 153 miles and I felt like crap very early on, and..."
30:28	Sam Parr	Just go the next mile.
30:29	Oz Pearlman	"You just have to get to the next thing that you're going to do, whether it's a mile. For me, it's the next gel [energy gel], which is going to be in 20 minutes. That's all I'm thinking about: just get to that gel. Do not extend beyond that. The first time I did this race—the Spartathlon, in Greece—it's 153 miles in 36 hours. There are a lot of races you hear about that are longer, but this one is arguably the hardest because the cutoff is very tight. A lot of the other ones are glorified; you could walk them. Like a 250‑miler: you can walk the whole thing. People are gonna get pissed, but you can jog and walk."
30:58	Sam Parr	Five days, right?
30:59	Oz Pearlman	They do it—literally that 250 [mile]. I see, you have to calculate the hours. I'm like, how many hours is this? So it's have to run this whole thing or you're out. Most people are cut by 50 miles into this race. It's that challenging. At that race there's a video of me and a buddy of mine on YouTube where, at mile 54, he goes, "Oh my God, we only have 99 miles to go," and I literally say, "Shut your mouth." The guy— I DNF'd that year (didn't finish) and I was crushed because that thought of "right now I still have 100 miles to run" broke me. It broke my spirit. I just couldn't... I couldn't feel that. It's exactly what you just said: "I'm gonna make $20,000,000 by the time I'm 30—I'm already 27 and I'm nowhere near." You just crumble. It's like a diet. Instead of just saying, stay focused on the next step, we're getting to 10,000 subscribers—don't worry about getting to a million. We're that close. Let's focus on now. I think that's the best way to do it. That's me. What </FormattedResponse>
31:51	Sam Parr	And my partner Sean—we call it A‑B‑Z. Z is the long-term vision that inspires you. But that's not helpful—or rather, it's good for inspiration; it's not good for daily action. For where you are at A, you don't worry about C, D, or anything else. You just learn about... You're at A; I worry about B. Yeah. Then when I get to B, I worry about C.
32:09	Oz Pearlman	Smart.
32:10	Sam Parr	And so that's kind of the idea. Anyway, I read this about you—"reverse engineering your trick"—and I was like, "Okay, here's one of those metaphors for life," because that works perfectly for anything.
32:19	Oz Pearlman	Honestly, it's weird how that happens—where things are going. I also have a bad problem: when I'm at my peak, when things are at their best, I have this fatalistic pursuit of, "Oh man, things are too good right now; it can't continue to go better." So I'm not enjoying the present moment of things being incredible. Everyone's like, "Dude, you're doing this and this," and I'm like, "But what's next?" That's a mindset I have to kind of overcome a lot of the time. I'm always stuck in fifth gear, asking, "What am I gonna do next? What's going to be even bigger? And what..."
32:50	Sam Parr	About next all the time.
32:51	Oz Pearlman	I should be deriving joy because I'm doing things that, if you had told me ten years ago I'd be doing, they'd be impossible. It's like, "Oh—I'm at the Golden Globes with all the winners. I'm now hosting the White House Correspondents' Dinner." There are things that I would not have dreamed of occurring. Had you rewound and said to me, "You're gonna do this and this," I'd be like, "There's just no way that's true." Now, when you're in it, you don't really enjoy it in the same way because it's a means to an end, but I don't know what the ends are. It's a hamster wheel that never stops, you know. It's kind of like we've now entered this cycle of a content game where all of us are vying for eyeballs and it never ends. It's like I have friends who are partners at law firms. I remember my sister — I have two sisters who are older than me. When I first moved to New York I was 17. I had an internship over...
33:40	Sam Parr	"The summer — where are you from? Michigan. I'm Missouri. So, good Midwestern guys."
33:44	Oz Pearlman	Right — good, very friendly. I was here; it's just like your thing where I met… I met this gay couple. These guys were both partners in a law firm, no kids. Each of them made over $1,000,000 a year. Okay, I'm like, "What? Do you understand?" I don't even — I can't even comprehend that number. It's… it's unfathomable. This is in, like, '19; this is in 2000. I just don't even understand. They go to restaurants every night. I'm like, "You eat at restaurants every night? I haven't been able to eat dessert more than once a year on my birthday." </FormattedResponse>
34:13	Sam Parr	"You gotta ask if you can order a Coke."
34:14	Oz Pearlman	Everything about this is insane, and I can't get over it. It's exactly like what you just said. When you're viewing this from an outside perspective, I just can't explain how—once you start attaining those levels—you no longer see it the way you did before.
34:35	Sam Parr	What can I do to improve my odds of correctly guessing when someone is lying to me?
34:41	Oz Pearlman	So, I've gone into a bit of lie detection. The thing is, I'm not a body-language expert. There are people who study that, and even then it's wishy-washy as to how effective it is. It's almost like vitamins—what's the efficacy? How much can you really figure out to know if people are lying to you? I think the key way I do it, within the construct of my show, is I set up very strict parameters of questions so I can potentially get the answers more easily. It's not a daily-life thing; this skill doesn't generalize. Does that make sense?
35:13	Sam Parr	Yeah, so you don't think that you are...
35:15	Oz Pearlman	Well, if I'm in a show and I ask you a very certain question—like, "think if the card is red, think if it's black, think if it's this"—and I'm trying to get to a limited subset: there are 52 cards in a deck and I'm getting down to one. I have a series of very pointed questions and ways that I can influence you to get there. But to ask you, "What do you think of my business? How much is it worth?" and then see the answer you give me—that's a much broader span of answers.
35:38	Sam Parr	Have you been able to use this, for example, when giving feedback to your—your wife or your coworker? </FormattedResponse>
35:43	Oz Pearlman	I would say that I've had very good luck with things that are very simplistic and numerical-based, like real estate negotiations, where it's very clear-cut: we're trying to get to a number. I'm trying to see where I think their number stops and where my number stops, and to figure that out and deduce whether we are going to go back and forth. </FormattedResponse>
35:58	Sam Parr	So, how do you do that? I mean... like... well—did you do...?
36:01	Oz Pearlman	I use a lot of emotion. It's the same thing I use in my show, which is excitability — the con man's tools. When I've sold every property I've sold at a profit, every single one, I want a feeding frenzy. Whereas other people will say, "Well, emotionally based: I've owned this thing, they're all worth this much, I'm going to price it this and I hope..." I'd rather price something 10% less, get 100 people in the door for an open house, have this person's spouse saying, "Gotta get this, honey — there hasn't been anything on the market for $499,000," and it went right under the $500,000 of StreetEasy that your search is. We gotta get in this place and see it on day one. Then have emotions come into play. Once you're emotionally invested, that's when things start to happen — that's when people start getting reckless. It's the same as behavioral economics: "When everyone's selling, you should be buying" — Warren Buffett 101. But when everyone's selling you're calling your financial advisor: "Dude, it's tanking! It's tanking! Oil's about to be $200 — what do we do right now?" The answer is, "Stay the course, baby. Come on, look at the long term. Buy right now when people are panicking." I use that to my advantage in my show. I do the same thing. When I've sold properties I've always underpriced them considerably, then taken the momentum and utilized the fact that when people think they're competing with others, they're going to work against themselves. You can literally have no other offers...
37:15	Sam Parr	"How many properties have you sold?"
37:16	Oz Pearlman	I think four or five, and they've all been at a profit and done very well. I think that's been because I understand not just the way people lie, but I can observe the way people behave in situations.
37:28	Sam Parr	"How old were you when you met your wife?"
37:30	Oz Pearlman	26
37:32	Sam Parr	So, I presume you're good already.
37:35	Oz Pearlman	Not really.
37:36	Sam Parr	You said, "You weren't good yet."
37:37	Oz Pearlman	I was a pretty good magician, but I was, like, a pretty lackluster mentalist. I didn't do as much mentalism then.
37:42	Sam Parr	"What age did you get good?"
37:44	Oz Pearlman	I mean, I'm still getting good, but that's a difficult question. Probably, over the next five years, I started improving.
37:50	Sam Parr	So, in your early thirties, it's that moment when you're like, "Okay, something's going on."</FormattedResponse>
37:54	Oz Pearlman	It's been eleven years since I became a mentalist. I literally branded myself as "The Mentalist"—always the mentalist—instead of being a bit of both. I just decided, "This is what I'm going to do," and not really do magic. It's, again, a nuance, but I almost don't do any magic in my show anymore.
38:10	Sam Parr	Who's the most successful magician—financially?
38:14	Oz Pearlman	Copperfield. Oh.
38:15	Sam Parr	"Is he a billionaire?"
38:16	Oz Pearlman	Billionaire—he's a workhorse. I mean, no one has his work ethic; he's on a different level.</FormattedResponse>
38:21	Sam Parr	I think I read that he does—was it 500 shows a year? </FormattedResponse>
38:24	Oz Pearlman	Well, until April 30, he's wrapping up.
38:27	Sam Parr	"Wait — so what? How many shows did he do?"
38:29	Oz Pearlman	In his life.
38:29	Sam Parr	No, a year.
38:30	Oz Pearlman	An obscene amount. I think 500 to 600. Which, if you understand what that maps out to — if you look in Las Vegas, they have their shows dialed in with teams that really know what they're doing. And again, it's you — the performer. I'm not saying that anyone's taking the heat off of you, but anything that can be outsourced, that can be taken off your hands — like ruthless efficiency — it's amazing what some of the people do who have, like, a show in their own theatre.
38:53	Sam Parr	When you were getting into the business, were you like, "This is the person who..."?
38:56	Oz Pearlman	Absolutely not.
38:56	Sam Parr	Who did you aspire to?
38:57	Oz Pearlman	Be, so you'd never know this person, but I stumbled into the corporate sector because I used to work on Wall Street. I saw corporate events as the top of the mountain for two reasons. First, I have the right look and the right lingo and terminology. I come from the world of corporations, so I'm a safe bet. I started to understand that when a corporate event—when somebody wants to come in—they may want it to be internal, like an SKO [sales kickoff]. You want to "rah rah rah," get people pumped up, use a little messaging, and have them leave feeling inspired. Or maybe it's external—client-facing. We want to win over clients, make them feel appreciated, and create a memorable night that people talk about. Second, let's say you hire a musician. Not everyone likes the same music. You could spend $10,000,000 and get Paul McCartney. What if I'm not a Beatles fan? Not everyone is. Then you haven't really gotten the full ROI. If you get a comedian—I love comedy—comedians can sometimes offend your sense of humor; it isn't mine. This is very lucky: I have one product that almost everyone in the universe loves. Wow—the amazement—transcends and it's universal. Do understand what I'm saying: if you do it effectively, it applies to everyone and it transcends language barriers. You could drop me in Tokyo and I could make friends in one minute. I would do more magic, but I could instantly go, "Did you see that?" That feeling is very special. It's like certain things are carnal desires—sex appeal, food—things that are hardwired in our DNA for whatever reason. Wow is a very strong emotion. I knew that I could do that. Also, corporations don't spend their own money. When you go to see a concert or a show, you worked really hard for that money—you've got to kerplunk your own money, get a babysitter, do all this. At a corporate event, you're spending the company's money. It's much easier B2B than B2C. If I ever opened a business, never consumer-facing. I don't want that drama. I want B2B. I want to go enterprise. I want big amounts of money being given to me and not a lot of oversight. People say, "You're good"—boom, ready to go. It's just a much simpler pursuit than getting a million people to spend $1. I'd rather get one person to sign a check for $1,000,000.
41:14	Sam Parr	"How big is the team? Is it just you and...?"
41:16	Oz Pearlman	The team is very small, like that.
41:17	Sam Parr	"Who is it?"
41:18	Oz Pearlman	So, it depends what you describe as a team. I have my manager; I have an agency that helps as well. I have a video editor and somebody who helps with social media. But all of them are kind of like contractors. It's mostly me — yeah, and my manager.
41:33	Sam Parr	And so, do you have an end goal in mind for your career?
41:36	Oz Pearlman	God, I want to offload some of the stuff that I don't like. I'd like the team to be bigger, but really sharper. I keep wanting to trade money for time because that's really—I'm just running into this issue of money and time.
41:48	Sam Parr	Where is your time being spent right now that you think is a waste?
41:51	Oz Pearlman	Oh, without a doubt — on skills that I'm not good at, like administrative oversight. I need a very strong executive assistant to do that, to take it off my plate. Someone I can outsource the day-to-day management of tasks to — the tasks that I detest.
42:05	Sam Parr	"That seems like... that's like the most straightforward thing ever."
42:07	Oz Pearlman	So I know it is, but I've just had very bad luck with hiring in recent years—it's mostly my fault.
42:13	Sam Parr	Do people find you intimidating to work for because of what they see you do?
42:16	Oz Pearlman	I thought, maybe...
42:17	Sam Parr	That could be true. How does your eldest kid, on the whole, take it? If they're old enough to know what you do, does your eldest see you just as "Dad," or do they know that you have superpowers?
42:30	Oz Pearlman	I think they take a lot of pride, which is really touching. Like when I see them talk about me, or when I hear others mention me in day-to-day situations. What's very funny is that all my kids know it — they get a laugh out of me. Kids are so perceptive; if they know something's funny, they'll keep doing it. If you ask any of my kids what my name is, they'll say, "Oh, it's the Mentalist," which cracks me up every time — even my two‑year‑old. It's just very funny that they'll call me that. If I'm in public, they'll say, "He's a Mentalist," and then, "Don't tell people that."
43:02	Sam Parr	So, you read this... There's this book called "13 Mentalists," is that right?
43:05	Oz Pearlman	13 Steps of Mentalism
43:07	Sam Parr	Yeah, sorry — 13 Steps to Mentalism. I think you said that was the book that got you.
43:10	Oz Pearlman	Rogan asked me on the "spies of book." Yeah—it's... it's... that's like the Bible. That's the initial one.
43:16	Sam Parr	"What was the one that impacted you? What was the primary source for you to learn—that was like the biggest impact on you?"
43:23	Oz Pearlman	So, the biggest impact on me was a book. But it's so obscure you wouldn't find it—it's even out of print. It was The Business of Mentalism. It had no tricks in it; it was all about theory. I keep trying to distill it. It's the same way I would say there's an economy of words when you watch a really good stand-up comic: timing—how do you take a joke and tighten it? I kept trying to figure out, "What am I doing?" And I know this sounds so silly: "What am I doing and why am I doing it?" There are such key things that sound so simple that most of us don't have guiding principles. We just kind of go through life, we stumble into a profession, we keep doing it, and we hit a certain level. I think the people who somehow jump and rise to the top look at themselves from an outside perspective and ask, "Why? The why." So when I'm doing this, I always assume, "Why does anyone care? Why do you care?" Because this is about your brother. Your most important things in life are the people you care about—your wife, your kids, family, finances, your future, your faith—things that appeal. I try to make this about you. I try to give you a memory, a feeling that you'll take. And the story you tell is, "How did you guess my brother John's name and birthday?" Think about it: the exact same thing. I could have just guessed a date that had no meaning to you, and it wouldn't have been the same story.
44:45	Sam Parr	I think the emotion I feel talking to you... I mean, obviously that's insane—how you do that. But in my head I'm like, "Okay, magic's not real; he's just mastered this skill."
44:54	Oz Pearlman	That's true.
44:55	Sam Parr	"The feeling I have is that this person is so much better at his skill set than I am at my skill set."
45:01	Oz Pearlman	Why are you comparing? I don't know how you think it's so... apples and oranges.
45:04	Sam Parr	"No, but what I'm saying is, I am so inspired by the level of mastery this person has that I want to become a master at whatever I choose. It's sort of like—I don't need to be a fan of swimming, but when I see Michael Phelps swim, it's a work of art."
45:19	Oz Pearlman	Yeah.
45:19	Sam Parr	And that is what I feel like. I feel like I'm in the presence of someone who's the best of the best of the best, and I find that inspiring. I'm also wanting to learn how to be the best.
45:28	Oz Pearlman	I couldn't say it any clearer. That's exactly how I feel. When I meet people who have committed their life to something and are exceptional at it—if they're the best—it's just so inspiring. It's exactly that. Rather than putting myself down, I'm just like, "Wow." It gives me... that's what something means: it gives me fuel.
45:46	Sam Parr	Yeah, we've done 800 of these episodes. I've talked...
45:48	Oz Pearlman	I know.
45:49	Sam Parr	Twenty billionaires — probably. I don't know... a lot.
45:51	Oz Pearlman	I even know the billionaires, but you've talked to people who are just inspiring—people who have built businesses that are really something. I like the people who are so driven that all the obstacles put in front of them don't matter; they'll find a way and go through brick walls.
46:05	Sam Parr	Sounds messed up. I don't find Elon Musk to be particularly inspiring, because I don't want to trade spots with...
46:10	Oz Pearlman	Him, right?
46:11	Sam Parr	But what I love is people who carve their own path, and I don't. I think business and capitalism is the most practical way to carve your own path.
46:19	Oz Pearlman	Right.
46:19	Sam Parr	But I'm obsessed with people who are world-class artists, or someone who owns a bodega down the street who has every single protein bar because they've found that's their niche. They're just on top of it. I'm obsessed with that—the people who just said, "I'm gonna let my freak flag fly and this is the path I'm going to have." Have there been any titans of industry or famous people you've met who were very challenging to read, and you thought, "That's why you're successful"? Or have you noticed other attributes where you're like, "You are more difficult than the average [person], and now I understand why you're at the top of your game"?
46:52	Oz Pearlman	So it's funny you mentioned Jeff Bezos. I met Jeff Bezos last year and I had him on my show. It was awesome — honestly one of the top 10 moments of my career. I'll keep it short: it was probably the most powerful room I've ever been in. It was a big event in Aspen, and everybody there was CEOs and people who run companies. Just name the people: Bill Gates was there, Ted Sarandos was there, Jeff Bezos — everyone. There were about 200–300 people in the room. I told a story about my kids. We have an Alexa speaker at home, and I wanted a heartwarming moment because it humanizes me when I'm performing. I said, “There's one person in this room I told my kids was here. They don't care about the rest of you, but this one person has created true magic.” I explained that the Alexa speaker in my house gets asked at least 100 questions a day. I told them, “The person who invented Alexa is going to be in the room with me,” and I said, “Mister Bezos, stand up.” It was a very funny, poignant moment. Then I told the audience, “You get to now ask me any question you want. Sit there, marinate, and think to yourself: what if I had access to all the data in the world — which you do, AWS [Amazon Web Services] — and I could look up anything about you. Ask me a question nobody would know the answer to: not your wife, not your brother, not your sister. Go back through your life like it's a movie and think of something so obscure, so impossible. I don't care what it is, but ask me a question.” He goes, “Who'd I get in a fight with in third grade?” It was just like... and I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but...
48:29	Sam Parr	"You got it."
48:29	Oz Pearlman	Yep — I got it. It was just a crazy moment. It's one of those moments I'll never forget because it happened right in this room: right time, right place. There's nothing like a challenge where somebody challenges you. It was wild. It was a wild moment. Every one of those is a little internal boost — not of self-esteem, but it validates. These were some of the most intelligent people in the world, by far. To be able to take my craft — my craft is to reverse engineer the human mind — to know how people think, to amaze them, and to some level deceive them, and the fact that they had no idea how you could have possibly done that... that's a rare commodity.
49:15	Sam Parr	Yeah, it's crazy hanging out with you because I have this book up here, Pre-Suasion. You know who wrote that? Of course—Robert Cialdini. His book Influence—I read that when I was going through my... and I was like, I have this ability to convince people of certain things. Not like you, but I was like, I have this ability to convince a girl to go out with me. I have this ability to sell stuff. "Let's get this shit right." I remember reading that book and it changed my life, and I was like, I'm going to get my act right. But now I'm hanging out with you and I'm like, this is Robert Cialdini times 100.
49:45	Oz Pearlman	Robert Cialdini is very sharp.
49:47	Sam Parr	Yeah, I mean, what you're doing is like him — times way more. You know? It's crazy.
49:50	Oz Pearlman	I bet he'd enjoy it, but it's also done—again—through a certain lens. It's done for the sake of entertainment, and it's very specific.
49:58	Sam Parr	"Do you want to do one more trick and..."
50:00	Oz Pearlman	Then we—yeah, do one more thing. Let's do one thing, which is, again, I like this. I like this idea: "My First Million." It's a very smart title for a podcast, right? It's like...
50:09	Sam Parr	We made fun of it. We thought it was a horrible name.
50:10	Oz Pearlman	I think it's funny because it... it leads at the right foot. It's like, "This is what it is — take it or leave it." You're gonna like it, and it's a certain culture you decided in your mind. I had a number once. Once you had that number, you've achieved exit velocity: you have enough money, you can make it in life, and you get to enjoy your life more. I want you to imagine you spin a globe. I always like to go back to a visual — holding your hand and you land at one place and you go, "I would love to go there" — the number one place in the world, right? I walked in here earlier and I said to you, "What would you do if you had all the money in the world? Think where you would love to go and imagine you at that one place right now." Can you see it in your mind? Try to...
50:49	Sam Parr	"Been there before."
50:50	Oz Pearlman	Interesting question — hold on. If you've been there before... no, you've never been there before. I think the place you thought of—normally people will travel all over. You've been to a bunch of places. I think you don't need a passport; it's in the U.S., isn't it? Reverse psychology — you decided, like, "what if I'll do this?" That's really funny. Where everybody else would say "Maldives," "Seychelles," "I'm gonna go crazy — Machu Picchu," you decided, "I'm gonna try and keep it local to throw him off," and probably didn't get it. Probably didn't get it. How did I think domestic? Where—where was it? Where you've never been? Where did you think of? Say it.
51:31	Sam Parr	Jackson Hole, Wyoming.
51:32	Oz Pearlman	"Jackson Hole, Wyoming Airbnb didn't hire you. You had to pivot, correct?" "Yeah. You just, in your mind, pivoted—just like any good entrepreneur does. And you go, 'Do I have to be there? Do I have to have been there?' That question, right? Then you thought of somewhere else. 'Look at me'—was Paris, wasn't it?" "Yeah."
51:55	Sam Parr	"That's awesome, dude. That's it. You're just uncomfortable to be around. I don't... you are a horrible hang. Thanks, dude."
52:04	Oz Pearlman	Thank you. We're going to go run sometime.
52:06	Sam Parr	That's it. That's the pod. Oh my God.

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World’s #1 Mentalist: How To Read Minds, Influence Anyone, and Never Fear Rejection

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